Here’s the rifle:
DD M4 16" Lightweight mid-gas
M4A1 RIS II with KAC flip sights
Purpose:
General outside use to include:
Deer Hunting (yes, .223 is legal in my state for hunting)
OCCASIONAL (like once or twice a year) long range playing out to 600 yds on steel (maybe paper @ 100).
Precision shooting if needed in a crisis scenario
This rifle does not need to have HD/CQB capabilities because I have a MK18 for that,
and if push comes to shove, my T1 is on a Larue mount. I can move it over to this 16" and rough zero it to the irons.
The rifle is nice and light. It is not a heavy precision gun, and I want to keep it that way.
In the past, I have put a Nightforce 2.5-10, and a TA33 on this gun. The TA33 might still be there, but budget and a baby on the way necessitated that I sell it. I’m going to flip two of my Leupold hunting scopes to fund this, so figure $400.
I’m looking at the Leupold Mark AR series and cannot decide on the 1-4 vs the 3-9. I like the mil-dot reticle in the 3-9 for ranging and holds, but that scope is pretty big for a general purpose, lightweight rig. I also thought about the 1-4 hunting scope with the Turkey Plex as it gives a larger/quicker aiming point and potential holdovers, but that scope has friction adjustments instead of clicks, so no dialing to get out to 600.
Also, the budget needs to include a mount. I’ve searched and read as much as I can find in the last two days, so…ready, set, go.
For a budget 1-4, The Burris MTAC is a pretty good deal. I told myself I wouldnt get stupid and buy a 2K variable before I even knew how to correctly use one. I tend to do that. So I went the cheap route to see if I could “get into” them. Shots out to 600 are a potential limiting factor with the MTAC though based on the size of the reticle; I know its mil’d out to 600, but I wouldnt bet on it.
ETA - I also used the MARK AR series, but to me, its more of a hunting scope in marketing disguise. The MTAC fills the intersection of roles better IMO. Nice rifle by the way, the RISII is timeless.
I have a Vortex Viper PST 1-4x and am very impressed with the optic. It is very bright and clear, a functional reticle, and vortex gives you the option of capped or tactical turrets.
Yeah, I like the looks of the Viper and the Leupold VX-R as well. However, those with mounts are up in the $600-$700 range. Just not doable right now or for awhile. I just need some decent glass on the gun so I can hunt with it this fall. At the same time, if I’m going to put glass on it, I want it to be at least a step in the right direction instead of simply throwing a hunting scope on it.
I’ll second sadmin’s comments about the Burris MTAC. Bought one on sale for $299 a while back for the wife’s rifle after mounting a Burris LRS scope on one of my hunting bolt actions.
I have been very impressed with the quality of the glass and the brightness of the reticle. I cannot personally speak to how well the reticle works past 300 meters but I didn’t buy it for that purpose. If it gets rounds on torso past 300, that’s a bonus in my book.
Besides, IMO the only non-training civilian purpose for shooting a 5.56/.223 past about 200 meters is varmint hunting and no one shoots prairie poodles with a 1-4x anyway. Now, SHTF is another matter but I prefer a different round and more magnification for those distances.
ASH556, do you have a mount (brand/type) preference? If you go with an ADM or LaRue mount, that’ll leave $200-$250 for your scope. You could try an ADM Recon mount with something like a Redfield Revolution 2-7x w/ Accurange reticle and have $$ leftover. Or, you could do something like a non-QD Burris PEPR mount, and maybe swing something like a Leupold VX-2 Ultralight 2-7x. I’m not trying to push a 2-7x on you; those just seemed to be good examples.
With a strict budget, I’d decide on the mount first, and then see what my budget was for the optic.
Definitely Larue or ADM (preference for Larue, though). That’s why it’s a budget optic. I know I could get pretty close to a Vortex Viper PST or a Leupold VXR Patrol for $400, but I don’t want to skimp on the mount. QD is important to me in case I need/want to swap back to the T-1 (out of state class or something like that).
Good insight, thanks! Keep it coming. I’m really leaning toward the MK AR 1-4 at this point.
I have a Burris fullfield tac30 (predecessor to the mtac). Very happy with it. It is one of the lighter ones out there even at much higher prices. Mine is in a GGG FLT mount which is also very light.
I own a Burris FF TAC30 1-4x24 and just got the Burris MTAC 1.5-6x40 as well. They are good for the price. The feature set is impressive at their street prices (The 1-4 in tan is currently $280 on sale at Midway, and I got the 1.5-6 for $352 on Amazon (Botach the seller)). The glass quality is just decent and will not impress if you’re used to anything nice - in fact I don’t think it’s quite as good for contrast and resolution as a typical $300 hunting scope, and the MTAC in particular was a little disappointing on glass quality.
I briefly owned the similarly priced Nikon M-223 1-4x20 scope, and was not impressed. It’s rather dim and the 1x was about 0.8x.
I recently got a Weaver Super Slam 1-5x24, which is a clear step up from any of the above in glass quality but does not have a ranging reticle or illumination. It is listed for $420 at Amazon but a friend had a 25% off deal (Amazon Prime I think) and with a $50 rebate on top of that the final price worked out to about $265.
For these uses I would skip the 1-4x and get a decent 2-7x, 3-9x, or 3-10x intended primarily for the hunting market. Because 3-9x is so popular with the deer hunting crowd there are tons of options priced very competitively.
Fair enough on the higher power recommendation. However, I do still want to keep this rifle light, and don’t want to saddle it with a huge, heavy scope. I also don’t want to completely “bubba” it out with a big hunting scope. Simplicity and quality are what I’m looking for.
These are the features I want in the scope:
[ul]
[li]short
[/li][li]lightweight
[/li][li]1.5-2X at the most on the low end
[/li][li]Finger adjustable windage and elevation for the occasional long range shooting
[/li][li]Reticle: duplex is OK, but I like the idea of something like a Turkey Plex with maybe a couple holdover points.
[/li][/ul]
Something like the Vortex dead hold BDC offered in their 2-7x32:
Or the Leupold Sabot Ballistics Reticle:
Obviously, I’d have to figure out where the hold points actually hit, but it would be nice to have them for quick reference.
Illumination doesn’t matter to me at all. This is more of a field rifle, not a CQB gun. However, the heavy ring in the middle would help if I needed to shoot something quick and close.
I think you’re thinking of the Weaver Tactical 1-5x24, and also of the originally listed weight for it which was insane (like 27oz) and wrong. That has since been fixed and the Tactical is now listed at 14.5oz:
though I can’t see why it would be 0.3oz heavier than a model that has illumination and turrets but is otherwise about the same. The Burris 1-4x MTAC is listed as 17oz:
FWIW I owned the Vortex Viper 2-7x32 and sold that also. Optical quality was great but it was super sensitive to eye position - IMHO too sensitive for such a low power scope. It’s out of production now anyway.
If you really want your $400 budget to include a $170 mount, I would look at the Burris 2-7x35 options, the Fullfield II and Fullfield E1. I’ve had the FFII model for almost two years and it has really outstanding optical quality for the price (better, I think, than the more expensive TAC30 and MTAC scopes I have). The only thing I dislike is that the eye relief changes a fair bit from 2x to 7x. Both have a ranging reticle while the E1 has windage dots as well, and its reticle is etched glass. They are both under $200 at Cabela’s (and probably hundreds of other places).
That Burris E1 looks pretty sweet. Also, the Leupold VX-1 Hog scope has caught my eye. It has pretty much all the features I’m looking for and SWFA has it for $229. Sound like a winner?
I have a E1 on my wife’s 7mm-08 remington and its a pretty good scope. I think it will be a better scope than the Leupold when it come to glass clarity and brightness, at least to my eyes it was when we compared it to a VX-1. Leupold seems to be behind everyone else but they still want top dollar for their products.
Now, SHTF is another matter but I prefer a different round and more magnification for those distances.
