LEO drives up on dude smashing his fathers head in with a bat and engages. LEO is getting a lot of chit from the armchair types on the excessive misses. No doubt he missed X number of rnds, but people often absorb a handful of bullets before they even realize they have been shot if something critical is not struck. Not clear how many rnds crazy person with the bat took before his body responded and at what point in the shooting they hit the intended target. Having said that, those misses went into the house behind dude with the bat and that’s one golden rule broken there.
If I was to offer an opinion (vs criticize) from the safety of my office, it’s clear from his walking and shooting he has no training there as to shooting and moving. Had he stopped and gotten on his sites, he’d have made hit sooner and more often and ended the threat faster. Agreed?
9mm simply does not cut it as a duty round. My instagram feed will go on body cam benders and I can say without a sliver of doubt that the 9mm cartridge totally sucks ass at stopping threats. It’s a fucking joke.
A lot of 9mm shot will prove fatal EVENTUALLY, but the name of the game is stop an attack. I don’t know how long it will take LE to collectively pull their heads out of their asses and dump this gutless cartrige. It’s unbelievable at this point.
I don’t know how long it will take you to pull your head out of your ass on this one.
There are no duty pistol sized cartridges of any caliber that are effective at “stopping” anything unless a CNS hit is scored.
If you seriously think that .045” more diameter and a few more grains of bullet weight at similar speeds is going to mean fuck all you’re smoking crack.
Yeah, I watched a video of a couple guys who worked at Federal Anoka. While they acknowledged handgun cartridges offered varied energy on paper, they also said it didn’t make much difference due the elasticity of the human body until velocities reached 2,200fps. At that point it made a huge difference in creating a permanent wound channel and damaging organs as the projectile passes but not necessarily strikes.
Maybe the stat is bullshit but supposedly around 80% of gun shot wounds from pistols are survivable with medical treatment.
The answer isn’t bigger pistol rounds. The answer is right there in the police cruiser when a call comes through for backup, officer down, or x,y,z violent felony in progress.
It’s called an M4 Carbine or a shotgun.
Why are officers not being trained to deploy the most effective tool they have when they know they’re going into a trouble situation?
Yeah this officer could probably use some pistol classes, most do and most of us probably do too because more training is better. What he needs even more is good training on grabbing the best tool for the job.
While there was no saving the victim here, grabbing an M4 with a RDS and lighting that shitbag up with some 64gr Gold Dot or other expanding duty oriented 5.56mm would have been way more effective than a pistol. Both from terminal ballistics and ease of getting good hits.
Agreed. Stopping the threat with a handgun depends far more on where you hit them than what you hit them with, and with that in mind I’ll choose the option that provides for larger ammo capacity.
9X19 is the best balance of shoot ability, size factor, and acceptable terminal performance in FBI ballistic testing protocols for penetration after passing through barriers when factoring shooter skill, hand size, and platform size that can accommodate the highest percentage of the population.
Pretty simple concept, there is a minimum FBI standard that the LEO world is pretty much settled on. There is no evidence or data suggesting that anything else that fits in a service pistol sized magazine well performs significantly better than 9X19.
If any of the smaller calibers or down loaded ammo you mentioned can meet minimum standard La then by all means I’d say they’re viable.
Using a lower-recoiling cartridge so that smaller / weaker people can shoot it “well enough” while improving marksmanship across the board given limited / insufficient training while saving money on ammo ARE valid arguments in favor of issuing it.
But saying 9x19 is “just as good” at killing or effecting the ceasation of aggression / violence of an assailant once bullets are delivered as .357 / .40 / .45 is bullshit.
You know I look at things like the Miami FBI Shootout and I become amazed that People can come to such conclusions.
You needed to have carbines in those cars, jumping out with a “Chiefs Special” and Love in your Heart isn’t going to get the job done. The very smallest pistol that they should have been carrying is a .357 and they should have had a Carbine per Man.
But you can’t tell People anything. So now we have Carbines in cars (Likely half are in the Trunk) but we’ve issued 9mm pistols across the board. When a Cop has to shoot a Guy 10 or 11 times to put him down because the Carbine in the Trunk, Cops look like Killers.
You know Hammer didn’t take a pea shooter to take out Bonnie and Clyde and there is a reason for that.
I’ve always considered the term “shot placement” a misnomer in context of handgun self defense shootings. High stress. Both defender and aggressor are likely moving. Awkward shooting position. Injured. Low light. Shooting into the sun… on and on… Most folks are simply aiming at center mass and lucky if they strike the offender let alone “place” the shot in a precise location. Shooting at a non-threatening stationary piece of paper in ideal conditions is another matter.
