I’m left handed and taking a Vickers course soon. I can use either a G19 or M&P9, I shoot both guns equally well but prefer the G19.
Reloads aside, am I at a major disadvantage if I cannot easily manipulate the slide stop on my Glock? I thinking of failure drills, perhaps.
Nope, not at all. In fact as a rule of thumb don’t use the slide stop.
I’m a rightie and don’t use the slide stop at all. In particular on Glocks. Just reach over the slide with your non-shooting hand, grab the rear of the slide between all your fingers and the heal of your palm to release the slide.
IMHO it’s the way to go. It’s a course motor skill you can do under stress.
Part of what you will learn in LAV’s course is how to deal with being wrong-handed when it comes to running the Glock.
As a bonus, you can ask LAV to give you his read on the “fine motor skill” debate about using the slide stop to release the slide from lock. 
And please take video for us :no: As JW said (who is remarkably consistently on point) after you spend some time with LAV you will have a firm grasp on how to overcome your disadvantage without having to use HOT… Ask him, don’t be afraid to pull him aside and ask him for help. He is a great dude and IMHO one of the best instructors in the industry. You will be in great hands and will walk away with a LOT to work on after your class is finished.
TAKE NOTES AND WRITE THINGS DOWN! Depending on your skill level you could be drinking from a fire hose and you WILL forget things if you dont take notes. IMHO any serious student should take notes at class…
this. and in addition, most of the time when i slam my mag in there the slide drops with it.
I’d be more concerned about the slide release getting in the way. As in pushing up on it when firing. It happens to folks with extended slide releases during competition shoots.
Never count on the gun auto-forwarding.
Thats a matter of personal preference really. I’m a huge advocate of using the slide stop whenever possible.
Stop this shit! Because you guys use HOT does NOT mean that its the most effective technique in charging your weapon. It simply means thats what you do. Who taught both of you guys this technique?
Learn both and then determine what technique works best for YOU.
Kyle Defoor wrote about going from HOT to SR below. If you guys (like the OP is obviously doing by seeking out training) are truly interested in learning, then take the time to research what the top instructors out there teach and WHY they teach and use it.
I just spoke to Looey briefly this morning about this thread. I’m under a bit of a time crunch, so forgive me if this is repeatative, I just can’t sift through the whole thread right now.
Firstly, I do not use the slingshot method anymore. I switched over permanantly around summer of 2005. The reason is fourfold.
Number one- I now grip all handguns with my strong hand thumb laid over on my support hand, just a smidge. This is mainly for Sigs, as the release lever is so far to the rear. I keep it the same on all pistols so that I always get slide lock. We have to shoot different pistols sometimes weekly. Bottom line is its simpler, and faster.
Number two- I’ve measured the size of an average mag release button and an average slide release button. The slide release is at a minimum 3X bigger. I no longer buy the argument that you can hit the mag release, and then .005 seconds later you lose your mind and can’t find the slide release. Doesn’t hold water.
Number three- Around 2005, when I started shooting with Bill Go a lot getting ready for IDPA/IPSC type functions, I realized that my biggest weakness was emergency reloads. I simply could not keep up, even though I would be ahead on hits. I can?/could slingshot as fast as I think is possible just because of the fact that’s what the Teams do, but, I can use the slide release and at a minimum its .65 sec faster.
Number four - As far as I know, John (Shaw) started this whole thing in the early eighties when the Teams started going there. All the old timers have told me that it was mainly because at that time we didn’t spend a lot of time on pistols, flight gloves were the tightest glove around, and water/cold (remember, this is pre-9/11) on shipboardings were the biggest worry in regards to reloads. In comparision, Jerry (Barnhardt) would cringe when the training department at each Team, especially The Command, would ask him to teach it to us that way.
I equate this to bypassing the bolt release on an M4. Just not the best idea. We shoot/teach here more than most (96,000 rds for me last year) and see it all on a weekly basis, and I’m a firm beleiver in using the slide release now, no matter how you do it (support thumb on 1911, master thumb on others)
As far as what to teach, it depends on the weapon (1911’s are different), and the desire, physical limitations and experience of the student. In the end, just like gear, simpler, less movement is going to rule.
Hope this helps,
Kyle
What class are you taking and where?
I don’t think you’ll have to worry about advantage or disadvantage (it’s a class, not a competition). Show up and do what you’re used to, and if you learn to do it a different way in class and the new method works for you, then train with it.
that’s pretty chancey to rely on.
not a verbatim quote, but what I wrote in my notes from a Vickers basic pistol class:
“anyone that tells you that the overhand slide rack is THE way to perform a reload…stay the F___ away”.
circumstances can vary, but in generall using a slide release is the better option. Much faster, and less prone to induce a stoppage.
I wont go into the tired mantra of train like you fight but well…train like you fight.
If the class has a component covering all manner of malfunction clearing then why come to the class with a gun that is going to inhibit your ability to learn those techniques?
Now, if the student carries, competes or works with a G19 then he would be doing himself a disservice in not taking that gun to the class so he could apply those techniques to his chosen weapons platform.
If clearing malfunctions couldnt be done on a glock with your reaction hand no one would be carrying Glocks so to the OP i think you’re over thinking this one.
Choose whichever gun you enjoy using more, carrying more, shooting more and run with it and dont look back.
Also, the HOT method versus Slide release method is about consistency, its not about gross motor skills versus fine. I really do wish people would drop this tired argument.
Pick whichever works better for you and roll with it, there is no universal “better” way.
Is there a thread or a link with more info where I could possibly read about “wrong handed” manipulation? Because I certainly am, but I’ve managed so far.
Thanks.
Yeah, but what does he know? I mean come on, its the internet. I much prefer to get my firearm TTP’s from those who quote “this” …
What possibly could a SEAL and a Unit guy know?
I don’t think that there’s a particular thread that sums it all up, unfortunately.
I can say that one of the recommendations I’ve heard from Mr. Vickers (and others) is for a lefty to install the extended Glock slide stop…or, even better, the new Vickers designed Glock slide stop…and to then use the trigger finger to operate the slide lock/release as needed for reloads or malfunction clearance, etc.
Agreed.
Folks, for the record, the concept of “fine motor skills” was conceived of in the study of human development to describe refined motor functions in developing children like the ability to grasp and manipulate objects with the hands and fingers. How it became a staple of those in the “tactical” world who seem to think that you can operate a mag release and a trigger but not a slide release is anyone’s guess. Suffice it to say that while it’s true that under extreme stress you may experience some degradation in manual dexterity, it is not true that you will lose all fine motor skills or else you couldn’t operate a firearm at all.
The extent to which your manual dexterity will be lost is also often overblown. If you dedicate deliberate effort into training to perform a certain task under stress, you will probably be able to perform that task under stress. This is an entirely different phenomenon than attempting an unfamiliar task under stress. This is as provably true as anything possibly can be, and is the foundation of all training ranging from training a short-order cook to training astronauts for missions in space. Our brains have an enormous capability to be programmed to deal efficiently with repetitive tasks to the point where they require absolutely no thought. In psychology it is referred to as implicit or sensorimotor memory. With the proper practice it is possible to ingrain skills useful for combat as deeply as the skills we ingrain for locomotion…aka, walking, running, etc.
The notion that under extreme stress someone will be able to draw a handgun and use the sights and trigger with sufficient precision to place accurate fire on a threat and yet somehow not be able to use the very same hands and very same digits to effectively use a slide release is absolute nonsense. It is, however, oft-repeated nonsense…and oft repeated nonsense is frequently elevated to the status of an article of faith that receives zero critical analysis of the type seen in Mr. Defoor’s quote above. As such it becomes “conventional wisdom” which in many cases is just a code word for tidbits of “wisdom” that are unburdened by any link to reality.
I’ll say again for the sake of clarity that under extreme stress you will do what you have trained to do. If you properly train to use the slide release to drop the slide from lock, you’ll be able to do it under stress. If you train to use the overhand or slingshot methods of releasing the slide from lock, you’ll be able to do those under stress as well. If you don’t train to do any of them, you’re pretty well screwed because, as I mentioned before, attempting to perform unfamiliar tasks under extreme stress generally isn’t very successful.
Those arguing that under stress you won’t be able to operate a slide release when fractions of a second before you were presumably able to orchestrate a mag change are wrong. Some of them may mean well and may only be repeating bad information they were given by a pseudo-authoritative source, but they are still wrong. Some of them may throw kettlebells around in the desert and think that they are some sort of warrior superman who exists on a higher plane than anyone else teaching guns, but they are still wrong.
Hmmmm. I heard that Hackathorn teaches running the slide, as opposed to the slide release button. Maybe you should call him out on it, or avoid him altogether?
Many teach racking the slide with the idea it gives you an extra 1/2" or so of slide travel, and stronger spring pressure, to ram the round home in case one is slightly oversized or you have a dirty chamber. They might be thinking combat vs. competition shooting.
Does it help that much? I’m no expert, and I don’t elevate other human beings to God status either.
JW…
Yet another fantastic post.
Well said brother.
With Glocks I use the rack method as I don’t run extended slide releases, and I have proven to myself I can easily miss the stock slide release at speed/under pressure/wearing gloves, with wet hands…
I’m OK either way really.
I do note that many of my troops who are wrong handed have factory extended slide releases on their Glocks at work, that I installed, to facilitate reloads, for locking the slide open when needed, etc.
I have seen the Glock extended slide releases cause right handed shooters many issues, not so the leftys.
Sure wish he would post more… This is just par for the course with JW. I think he is even funnier in person especially if you catch him with a full stomach after Cracker Barrel… 
I havent had the pleasure of meeting him in person yet, hoping to eventually get out to a class that hes in so i can shake his hand and thank him for being the voice of reason.