BCM Middy - Couple Q's

AR/M4 AR General Discussion
21

As Grant has stated before, only two companies have an official version of the TDP.

BCM is very high quality, but they are not quite on the same level as Colt or FN since they do not have an official version of the TDP. Since FN cannot sell M-16/M-4 style weapons on the US civilian market, that means that the only true top tier weapon on the US market is Colt.

Now, this is not to say that BCM/DD/LMT/Noveske isn’t a high quality weapon that is suitable for hard use, but, in all fairness they are not first tier as they don’t have an official copy of the technical data package.

22

Fair enough. I used top tier as subjective, but I see what you mean. Thanks.

23

well then the question is that if those companies did do testing, how would they fare? I’m pretty sure they would get the same numbers as Colt.

24

You’re not just limited to muzzle devices, but also to handguards in many cases.

In either case, nothing is irreversible, it’s just a matter of degrees of difficulty. For most that thought/think through the process beforehand the aggravation of the higher degree of difficulty of making changes is not worth the 1" of savings at the end of the barrel.

I’m curious how you use A2s and get a 14.5" to 16" though.

25

Yeah, the standard A2 adds 1.2" when you factor in threading.

26

Hmmm…interesting. Didn’t realize 14.5" middies had a “bad rap” either. FWIW, my Centurion Arms 14.5" middy ran like champ at a 2 day carbine course-- put more than 1K rounds through her-- Federal M855/M193 and PMC X-TAC XP193. No, I don’t use crap ammo (in any of my guns) and don’t think that should be a barometer for anything since I don’t plan/anticipate on being in a situation where I won’t have access to decent ammo. I run an H2 buffer with a Sprinco blue spring and a BCM bolt group. Monty built it with one of his lightweight CHF barrels and permed a Battlecomp 1.5. Perming a device isn’t a problem IMO if you know what muzzle device you want (personally, I’ve never felt the need to change the muzzle device or handguard on any of my guns). I know it’s only 1-1.5" shorter but the 14.5" seems to handle better than my 16" gun-- especially with the lightweight barrel, I could really get the gun up on target and drive the gun quickly. YMMV. I would have no probs making this my “go to” gun.

27

Not to be silly, but seeing as those manufacturer’s don’t have the TDP isn’t it potentially possible that their spec could exceed it in quality?

If anything, I would assume that the TDP spec could be subject to considerations (like budget) which manufacturers like BCM/DD/LMT/Noveske are not limited by.

We know it’s possible that a manufacturer could make a better barrel than Colt. I would assume this could be true across an entire build (receiver, LPK, stock, etc.).

Therefore it’s not whether or not BCM/DD/LMT/Noveske can meet the TDP spec (which is impossible to gauge without the TDP) but whether they can incidentally build to a higher spec than the TDP.

Sorry for the hairsplitting, just weighing my Colt v “the others” options now myself…

28

I was actually looking at a BCM 16" Middy “Recce” as well with the same DD Lite Rail.

Why does BCM though lump in a dozen or so other non 410 stainless steel barrels (like their BHF barrels) under the “recce” subsection though on their site?

A lot of them are just repeats from their standard 16" middy section.
Or is BCM just catering to the masses and has the Recce rifle gone the same way as the “SPR” when people will toss and optic or a bipod on any 18"-20" barreled rifle and call it an “SPR”?

29

My answer? YES. In fact, I think BCM and DD actually DO make a better weapon than Colt. Sorry to all the Colt fanboys out there. It’s only my opinion having used all three. Never used an LMT, so no comment there.

As for 14.5 vs 16. I like the A2X from BCM. It’s just there slightly larger version of the A2. So I pinned mine. I really could care less about being able to change it easily. Handguards are not that hard to find. And I think it handles and shoots better than the 16. Again, my opinion.

30

I have a 16" complete BCM upper that runs perfect in full auto, using carbine, H, or H2 buffers, all work perfectly. No problems or worries there.

31

Wow sampete, full auto huh? Jealous with the fun that must bring. Unfortunately I won’t (and prob never will) be able to afford a FA firearm.

32

You will need a rear sight.

33

Ejewels,

As someone who currently owns a BCM 16" middy upper with a 12" DD lite rail allow me to give you my input. I have this upper on my rifle for the same reasons you do (an all purpose rifle). The 16" middy barrel from BCM is an excellent choice and has served me well over the short year that I’ve owned it and I would not recommend a 14.5" barrel as opposed to a 16" barrel for your purposes. I say this because as mentioned by others, the 14.5" option will not allow you to change your muzzle device and/or configuration of your upper depending on the situation. You may not want to change anything on the upper immediately but I know when I started getting into the longer range aspect of AR’s I considered changing out my 12" lite rail for a 9" rail with an FSP while throwing the 12" on my SPR build and it’s certainly nice to have the ability to do so if you please.

Concerning your rail choice the 12" lite rail is a great system from my experience with it. The rail is well as the name states, light and has held up extraordinarily well. The DD bolt up barrel nut installs easily and the rail is held in place by 6 small screws running parallel with the receiver which gives you a rock solid grip on the upper and a continuos upper receiver. I like this as it gives me the option for mounting larger optics if I ever decide to do so. The DD rail also comes with 3 black magpul ladder rail covers if those are your thing.

As far as use at the range goes the 16" barrel still gives me the feel of a carbine while giving me the peace of mind that I can reach out a little bit further if I need to with the 12" rail given I have the ability to put a bipod and larger optics on the rifle effectively.

Conclusion, for an all purpose rifle it is my honest opinion you are making the right choice as far as upper receivers are concerned. The light weight of the DD rail combined with it’s great durability and track record as well as using a 16" barrel will give you the most options for an all purpose rifles and will still give you the feel of a carbine. By not using a 14.5" W/ perm FH you are further opening up your options to add or remove things from the rifle which is something I’d imagine to be important to you if it is something being used for multiple purposes.

For your reference:

Best of luck with your rifle,
Jack

34

I can’t afford one either, the lowers aren’t owned by me. BCM stuff runs great in full auto though, no complaints.

35

My main rifle is BCM 14.5" mid length. It has an A2x though it’s not permanently attached yet and on an SBR’d lower since it’s getting a Surefire 212 flash hider soon. I wouldn’t have an issue with it being permanently attached though since I, confident I’ll be rebarrelling the rifle before replacing the hand guard. I can still remove the hand guard, just not the barrel nut, so if I need a replacement, it’s not a big deal. The hand guard is a RIS II.

There’s no real reason I went 14.5" on this one over 16", but I already had two SR15’s and a couple SBR’s, so I wanted something in between. I’ve owned a 14.5" carbine before and I don’t know if it’s a mental thing or I actually do notice it, but the 1.3" seems to make a difference for what I do with it, albeit a small difference.

If someone is new to AR’s, I wouldn’t recommend a pinned 14.5" nor would I recommend a 14.5" mid length just in case there are issues with their ammo choice and they’re not ready to determine what is needed to fix any issues.

I’m ordering a Colt 6920 in the next week or two and I’m also debating what to do with the barrel as I’d prefer a 14.5" since it has a carbine gas system. I really just wanted the lower but found it a better deal to buy the complete rifle.

So far, my 14.5" mid length has been very reliable without a single failure of any kind using PMAGs and Okay aluminum mags. I have roughly 2,000 rounds through it, give or take a few hundred as I don’t keep track. Most has been xm193 with a few hundred of Monarch steel and brass case, some Finnochi loaded with VMAX (if I remember correctly - 50 round green box), about 120 rounds of 75gr TAP in 223 and 40 rounds of 75gr 5.56 TAP.

I’m using a Vltor A5 receiver extension. Recently I replaced a tungsten weight with a stainless weight per Vltor’s instructions. The only reason I did that was the 223 TAP and a few other assorted 223 rounds were sluggish while 5.56 was strong. It helped and all is well, but I have this overwhelming urge to just pop a carbine RE on there with an H buffer and be done with it, still likely to do that within a few weeks.

My cleaning and lube schedule is non specific, it’s been cleaned once and I usually put some Slip EWL on it before I start shooting for the day and do not reapply until next time, usually firing a couple hundred rounds per trip out. I don’t take the rifle every time, but it’s quickly becoming my first choice.

I don’t think that the 14.5" mid length is unreliable, regardless of the shooting conditions… I think a majority of the issues we hear about are when people try a buffer that’s too heavy, weaker ammo or a combination of both. Even then, I don’t think the majority of those issues are just ammo related. When we do hear about failures, the majority seem to be a bolt not locking back occasionally or some weak ammo short stroking once in a while. It’s not often that we hear of one that is a complete dud, though I’m sure there’s some threads out there.

Anyway, this is just my personal experience. I know what works for me. I know what ammo I prefer and what hand guards work for me and which don’t. So, I’d have no problem with a permanently attached flash hider and I may still go that route, just not sure yet.

36

Thanks for the input, guys. Couple more questions:

  1. This might be dumb, but is there any difference with rapid fire, speed of fire with a middy vs carbine? Can you shoot faster on one vs the other?

  2. I might want to save a little cash upfront, which would mean buying the rifle sans handguards. Can an MOE middy guard be installed easily by me (non- smith, average shooter)? This would be on the FSB option middy. -OR- can BCM install the MOE for me when I order it? I don’t see it as an option.

Thanks again

37

  1. I’m not sure, but I believe the cyclic rate of the carbine is faster than the midlength. However, in semi auto fire, it’s nearly impossible to reach full auto speeds with just your finger. Your not going to notice a difference.

  2. Putting on a MOE handguard take 60 seconds. Same as regular handguards.

38

Interesting, cuz don’t some people use the mid lengths as well as rifle length (M16) with full auto fire?

39

There will be no difference in how fast you can pull the trigger as it’s extremely doubtful you’ll be able to outrun the cyclic rate. It will depend on you as a shooter in how fast you can get rounds on target with each rifle though. With the way I shoot, I’ve found that unless I was competing, the difference is minimal and I can perform pretty much the same with either mid length or carbine gas system.

This is assuming both rifles are the same in every other way except gas system and the proper buffer and gas port is used for both. The difference will be seen more in full auto bursts than it will in semi auto shooting. Some feel there is an advantage though, while others don’t think it’s that much. Those that don’t think it’s that much are likely the ones using proper technique and most likely not serious competitors who will use low mass BCG’s and tune their rifles.

The most important thing to me is reliability. Like I said, so far mine has been great. I’d be just as happy with a carbine gas 14.5" though.

Regardless of what I prefer, if you still had the 6920 upper my advice would be to just keep that. Since you don’t, I’d recommend a BCM 16" mid length with an A2 flash hider and standard trigger. Work that rifle and see if you’re happy where it is or you’d prefer some changes, then make the changes only if it will give you some sort of advantage.

good luck.

40

Yes. That 14.5 middy makes an auto slow down like a M2 fitty cal.

Put the silencer on it, and it’s back cycling like an A2 rifle. I could PM you a video link where I dump 10 and 10 rounds with and without the silencer.