Is there a .308 AR platform that takes Preban mags so us ban staters can share the love? If stuck to ten rds I’ll stick with a precision .308 but I’m wondering about carbines in the 16" bbl variety. Anyone know?
The Rock River LAR 8 takes standard FAL mags, plenty preban mags to be found, also some 30rd preban mags too.
Another option are the 308 lowers that take the G3 pre ban mags, but no last round bolt hold open.
Thanks. I knew about RRA’s .308 but question its quality/reliability vs other .308s. I would tend to not consider an RRA in 5.56 and lean towards “the chart” for that caliber. I wanted to keep the same standards for .308 as well but have no idea how good the RRA .308 is vs their .223 line.
I have a RRA LAR-8 Mid Length. It is a very accurate shooter (with iron sights only for now) and fit & finish is excellent. I would highly recommend for the price.
I live in a ban state and feel your pain.
I believe Armalite AR10 pattern rifles (which can also be built by GAP and Noveske, maybe others) use mags that are tinkered M14 mags which are available pre-ban (known as Generation I magazines). I would imagine that you could obtain pre-ban M14 mags and perform the conversion yourself. Pre ban M14 mags are around, though I don’t know how plentyful they are.
Read this about Armalite Gen I and II mags from Armalite. http://www.armalite.com/images/Tech%20Notes/TECH%20NOTE%2071%20%20AR-10%20Magazines%20090603%20Rev%200%20Final.pdf
This is some interesting info on M14 mags including info about AR10 conversions. http://www.fulton-armory.com/M14Mags.htm
I read that Tiawanese contract Type 57 M14 mags are made to USGI spec and and are all pre-ban. Here are some available for relatively cheap. http://ammoman.com/index.htm
Some question T-57 mag reliabilty, but seem to indicate that there are mags out there to be found http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php/47561-M14-M1A-magazines/page2
Since you were looking for a 16 inch carbine you could get a Noveske upper for around 1700. http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?item_id=16-762&cat=98&page=1&search=&since=&status=
Then chuck (sell) the Vortex flash supressor and have this http://primaryweapons.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=37&idcategory=6 perm pinned in its stead to make the upper ban legal.
Then get a stripped armalite lower and build a ban compliant lower. http://www.762sass.com/product.php?p=27&cid=2&session=fd6b41a75e1bfcec8a11f03a286bf0c1
And you are good to go!
I’m sure there are other ways to go about it. Most 308 producers use DPMS/KAC pattern magazines (which I think are patterned off the original Armalite mags). Good luck picking up pre-ban KAC mags.
I don’t own a 308 myself. I have researched it a bit but researching 308 ARs usually just leads to Migraine headaches. Any path you go 308 ARs are expensive.
Dom
Most of these conclusions is where I always end up too. I know how to get a nice rifle setup even to ban compliance but always end up with mag trouble. The Armalite/M14 mag thing seems like such grey area that I always back away. Armalite doesn’t even know the answers. Ever see how to do the conversion? Seems like tinkering with reliability at best and then you’re stuck with a 10 rd rifle. Ughhhh.
I hadn’t heard about major issues with Gen 1 Ar10 mags, but I haven’t dug that deeply into it.
It looks like Armalite still sells the converted M14 mags for 40 bucks each on their website for ban-staters. http://www.armalite.com/ItemForm.aspx?item=EX0515&ReturnUrl=Categories.aspx?Category=c70251ef-dba9-4037-a759-b2d36557d12d
Here is Armalite on converting M14 mags to AR10B (Gen 1) mags. http://www.armalite.com/images/Tech%20Notes\Tech%20Note%2019,%20Conversion%20of%20M14%20Magazines%20to%20AR-10B%20Magazi….pdf
Even the conversion kit is $30, so it sounds like the cheaper option is to either buy a converted pre-ban mag from Armalite, or find someone with Gen 1 mags that is willing to trade them to you for new Gen II mags (that you purchase and drop ship to them).
Ban state blues. What nonsense that we have to even talk about this. I also hate the prospect of spending $3000 on a rifle only to feed it via 30 year old mags… then again I do it for my ARs and Glocks now so why not one more collection of antique mags for my safe? Going with a straight Armalite would be considerably cheaper than the Noveske upper, though Noveske probably gets the nod on quality (at least according to alot of the people who post on this site).
I myself was thinking about waiting to see how the LMT turned out and then just consign myself to 10 round DPMS pattern PMAGS… but that Noveske upper looks nice.
Dom
Thanks Dom, the ban laws are ridiculous and we pay more for those old mags too. stupid stuff. I’ve always heard Armalite made better AR10s than AR15s. Seem to always hear good things about their .308
Consensus seems to be that Armalite 308’s are better quality (reliable?) than DPMS 308’s, but cost more than the DPMS. I think that DPMS just grabbed such a large market share of the 308 market though that they became the default platform for building a 308. They are starting to piss people off with their non-standard height upper receivers which is likely to hurt their sales a bit among builders (I hear Fulton is sticking with the standard height upper which matches with commercially available rails).
When you buy or build an AR15 you tend to know what you get as far as quality. If you want a certain level of quality or QC you just buy from a manufacturer that you know adheres to the standards that you are looking for. You don’t have to guess to pick up a mil spec MP AR15 bolt… the manufacturers of the components and their QC standards are well known and advertised.
With 308’s i’m not sure. Does Noveske use Armalite BGS in their builds or buy from another manufacturer? Do Fulton and GAP use DPMS BCGs or another source? Barrels are one thing because there really is nothing proprietary about them (maybe a barrel extension) and the big barrel manufactuers will make barrels for any platform.
For the proprietary components in a 308 AR you have to wonder about who makes the guts, what type of QC they had, etc. As more companies get into the 308 market that will change. Larue and LMT are new to the 308 market and well known for their quality platforms, but I don’t know if their guts (BGG/FCG/etc) are proprietary, made in house or outsourced, compatible with Armalite or DPMS pattern (or KAC) rifles, or whatever.
My current plan as a New Yorker is to wait a while and when more information is out there about the Larue and LMT make a choice between the two and go with a precision platform and just suck it up and buy 10 around mags. Those two seem to be patterned on the KAC upper/lower receiver profile. Does that mean that they will be compatible with each other and with SR25s? Other than mag compatibility Who knows.
Dom
pesonaly, Id be so freakin worried that a cop would not know what the hall pre-ban mags are I would just run a modified to compliance mag and call it a day.
I found plenty of PMags modified to run 15 rounds and are made NJ legal online for the 5.56. They are available for the LR20PMag as well, 10 and 15 rounds.
Carry a copy of your state ban law in your glovebox and in your range bag.
I don’t know how it is in NJ, but in my area of NYS, LEOs don’t even look for violations of the ban unless you’ve been breaking other laws as well as the state AWB.
I share some of the pain here in CT. Miraculously, we never had our own mag restrictions, so your issue isn’t here. We balance that out with you and Mass being able to own nearly every Colt rifle offered and we can’t except for the newer Match Target models. Since I live three miles from Colt and drive by it every day, I am more than a bit aggrivated.:mad:
Mark LaRue made the first CT legal OBR for me and there are a few here now. SF 7.62K brake, perm attached on a 16" with the PRS stock. LWRC is also considerable enough to make legal REPRs
KAC SR-25s are fine as well pre or post subject to features.
No LMTs yet.
Pre ban 20rders are going to be tough but unless you were going to use it for run and gun instead of static point target shooting, I wouldn’t bother spending the money on them.