Many people (me included) have seen issues with the BAD and other levers causing failure to lock the bolt back on an empty mag. Intrepid users have tried many things including new lowers, bolt catches, buffers, BCG groups, and buffer springs with various amounts of success.
I think we can all agree a BAD lever is not part of the original rifle spec, but assuming we want to make it work, how about cutting the bolt catch spring?
Personally, I think this is a bad idea and would not do it on a serious use rifle, but it would likely fix the problem.
So the catch/spring was made to work a certain way but now you are adding extra weight to the catch with a BAD, making it harder to move out of the way and basically adding to the inertia required to move it. It would follow that a less powerful spring would allow the now heavier system to have the same inertia as before and work correctly. However, will a less powerful spring allow the system to move “easier” when not wanted and lock the bolt back at the wrong time? Is there a balance here or will a less powerful spring = less reliable operation?
Just a thought. Feel free to flame about not wasting time making an extra part work, but to me that’s sorta what this whole forum is about
Honestly, I just gave up on the BAD lever. I’ve not gotten them to run on anything from a 10.5 to an 18" SPR barreled gun. Got two of them sitting in a drawer now.
I thought I had it worked out recently in a thread I posted about but a couple weeks later it all went south again. Too bad. I really wanted the BAD lever to work out for me. But nothing related to convenience is worth the slightest sacrifice in reliability.
The spirit of my post is given the following “accepted changes” in the AR platform nowadays:
Enhanced extractor springs
Reduced power/extra power buffer, trigger, and magazine springs
Heavier bolt carriers
Carbine, H, H2, H3, Spikes, Pistol, A5, Rifle, and super heavy buffers
Probably a whole lot more… Not even to mention what serious 1911 users go through to keep their gun running.
Basically, I think the BAD lever and it’s ilk are a not fully engineered add-on. Note the many ambi-lowers that are coming on the market now. Maybe a BAD truly needs a bigger design change including pivot point, but it sure would be nice if it just required a spring change…
You find out how new stuff works by trying it and maybe after lots and lots of trying, and testing, and others using it, it can become “standard”.
My range life got a lot easier when I got away from 1911’s and started focusing on Glock 9mm and HK .45 pistols.
Again, I like the idea behind the BAD lever but it’s just not going to work for me. You see a lot of pics out there with AR’s with BAD levers on them. But I don’t think it’ll ever be “standard” on anything but Magpul training DVD’s.
On a side note, with the BAD installed, my rifle (16" BCM middy) quit locking back with weaker .223 ammo after I switched from a carbine to an H buffer. I recently removed the BAD and installed a TL Enhanced lever, and now it won’t lock back with the hotter .223 ammo that it previously had no problems locking back, only thing that has changed was the assist lever manufacturer.
I bring this up because I’m in the process of replacing my blue Sprinco spring with a BCM carbine spring and I’m also going to remove the TL lever. I will report back after the weekend, but I’m pretty sure my particular rifle doesn’t like any add-on leversm, so they will be thrown in the junk box.
When I installed the TL lever I noticed that it seemed heavier duty / bulkier than the BAD…go figure…
Pretty much sounds like my problems, but I actually started with a well used carbine length buffer spring that worked worse than the blue Sprinco I put in as far as BAD + bolt lock went…
I am ready to give up on a BAD for this mid-length, but I might try a cut spring just for experimentation purposes, however even if that works I am loathe to leave it in.
I don’t know what it is but I just don’t get these things at all.
I have 5 AR15s; 10.5"/14.5"/16"carbine/16"mid length/18" and all run with a BAD lever without any issues, with standard springs from their respective factories: Colt,LMT,DD,BCM.
Then I have 5 1911s 3"/4.25"/3x5" and I run all stock weight springs and all these weapons needed nothing from their factory configuration to run properly. Even the 5" 1911 A1 from 1943 runs perfectly…
Either I’m the luckiest fucker around, or people are just getting shit specs.
A correctly built AR is exactly like a correctly built 1911, 100% reliable over thousands and thousands of rounds.
I’m running a 16", carbine length gas with H2 buffer and a BAD lever. I have yet to see it cause any issues even shooting primarily wolf. But it is a great help during malfunction drills and mag changes.
Like above, I have yet to have a single issue out of my 1911 either…and it’s an RIA with a few kimber bits mixed in. Ran fine stock, runs fine now.
I think that people may be installing the BAD incorrectly (or poorly). Mine works perfectly and I’ve never had an issue with the bolt not locking on empty. My buddy’s 10.5" MRP just got the BAD added to it and operated properly during our trip to the range Sunday.
If it’s not attached well it could rotate a bit on the bolt release and possibly contact the receiver on the lower half of the BAD. If that happens it could then cause the failure to lock issue.
That works for all my GI mags, but even on Magpuls that don’t work extra power springs only partially solved the problems.
I have BAD levers on 4 other AR’s that run great, it’s just this upper that does not work. Being that it’s a factory Noveske that shoots incredibly otherwise I am just seeing what else I can do to get it work.
You hit the nail on the head, and proved my point, this is not a BAD lever issue, this is an issue with your upper.
In the case of this upper, either have the upper worked on to rectify it, as it sounds like it may not have enough bolt velocity you could perhaps open the gas port, use lighter buffer spring, lighter buffer, or simply leave the BAD lever off.
If it was mine I just wouldn’t run the BAD as it isn’t worth the hassle.
I like the BAD Lever and have only had intermittent problems with just 20-round mags.
I’ve been speculating why the BAD’s cause problems with some guns and not with others. Here’s a guess as to what the problem may be:
Most of the Bolt Catches I have seen are kind of loose. A lot of side to side slop; no big deal but not a precision fit either. Plus the finish on the Bolt Catch and on the sides of the Bolt Catch supports are naturally “rough”.
The horizontal run of the BAD through the Trigger Guard probably accounts for a considerable percentage of the weight of a BAD. This weight is a couple of inches below the Bolt Catch’s Pin.
During recoil, this weight “out on the end of a stick” applies a compounded force to the Bolt Catch which causes the BC to bind in between the supports for the BC and on the BC Pin. This binding hinders the magazine spring’s push up on the BC long enough to miss catching the Bolt.
I’m not having a repeatable problem with my BAD. If I was having problems, I would do one of the two following: #1 - Try forcing a good thick teflon grease (SuperLube) into the sides of the BC around the pin, where the BC rubs inside the gun, and anywhere else there is a chance for a rub. Work the BC to spread the lube, relube, work it again, wipe of excess. Shoot the gun and see if this makes things better. If it does, then I would do #2.
#2 - Remove the BC to smooth the sides of the BC and smooth both of the inside edges of the BC supports with a polish. I’d probably smooth out everywhere that the BC rubbed or could rub in the gun.
I wouldn’t remove any finish; just smooth it out with a polish. Coupled with a little lube, this might allow the BC to “glide” into position in spite of the binding force applied by the BAD.
If this works out to be the problem, it might explain how some spring and buffer changes have had positive (and negative) affect on some BAD’s but not others.
Now this is just me and my big head “thinking”…YMMV
My issue with the BAD is that it doesn’t fit any of the Colt bolt catches I have installed. I install Colt bolt catches on all my guns…even the SR15. The BAD simply is too big around the bolt catch interface to clamp down good on these.
From what I believe Drake said on TOS the BAD was tested primarily on SW lowers which uses a commercial size bolt catch. From the few I have examined the SW bolt catches are much thicker in the paddle areas than mil-spec Colt bolt catches.
I did test the BAD on a Stag LPK bolt catch I had laying around, and it clamped just fine to that. I think many of the commercial companies are using bolt catches with much thicker paddle areas than ‘original/mil-spec’ size paddles such as Colt.
The BAD was also slightly loose on the original SR15 bolt catch I had which I swapped at around 500 rounds. I have since run over 10k failure free rounds through that SR15. I do not think its an issue with with my uppers/lowers rather its just simply that the BAD will either work or it wont depending on the brand and setup you have. I got all kinds of issues using the BAD on that SR15. As soon as I took it off Ive not had any issues at all. Even after I took it off I ran that gun to over 5k rounds without a cleaning and didn’t have any issues with it then, either. Im not going to blame the gun when it runs 100% without cleaning for over 5k rounds and over 10k without a single failure because an aftermarket device added to it suddenly causes problems.
I love having BAD levers on my guns and I think they are a great tool if they work like they should. If it’s not working like it should, get rid of it.
I have them on both my ARs and I’ve never had a single problem.
Yeah, my bolt catch has a decent amount of room to move around in and both the lower and catch are smooth. I have tried light oil, moly grease, and now Frog lube with no difference and the the action seems smooth as silk…
I do agree with your theory though, and am going to try a cut spring to achieve the same inertia reduction just for pure experimentation sake. I AM NOT GOING TO LEAVE A CUT SPRING IN MY LOWER :no:
I have BAD levers on both my rifles. 16" carbine w/h buffer, and 16" middy w/h buffer. They both run great. My thoughts lean toward tolerance stacking. Tiny incremental differences in different rifles can add up to a “perfect storm” that won’t allow the rifle to run with the BAD. I think the rule of thumb should be, if it runs fine ON THAT PARTICULAR RIFLE, use it. If it causes any problems whatsoever, ditch it. If you’re bound and determined to use the BAD, be prepared to fiddle with everything, (including the lower) to get it to run.
For some reason the pin on the spring on my SBR lower was stuck in, so my BAD lever would just flop around. No function problems at all with about 400 rounds through that gun.
