BAD Lever + 16" Middy = Bolt Lock Issues *What I Found*

AR/M4 AR Technical Discussion
1

I have been trying to get a Magpul BAD to work 100% with my Noveske 16" Lo-Pro upper for a couple months now with mixed success. My only issue is the bolt will not lock back consistently on an empty magazine. First off, Noveske has admitted they have seen issues and I don’t expect them to make it work 100% with an aftermarket product, I was just hoping to make it work like all my other AR’s…

Things I tried and found:

  • Happens same with Fed XM193, Fed AE223, and BH 75gr red box ammo.
  • Tried C, H, & H2 buffers (no pattern found, settled on H buffer as Noveske recommended)
  • Switching to a proven ionbonded BCG, didn’t help.
  • Did not work with Magpul 20’s.
  • Worked 80% of the time with USGI 20’s.
  • Worked 25% with CProducts Stainless Mags/Magpul/Wolf springs (I have always loved these mags for their durability)
  • Worked 90% with USGI with Magpul followers and Wolfe/ISMI springs.
  • Magpul 30’s worked from 0-100% with various mags, probably an average of 80% though.
  • Replacing Magpul springs with stronger springs brought bad mags up to 50%.
  • I drilled 10 holes and ground half the backplate off the BAD to lighten up the mass, I would bet I reduced it by almost 25%. Didn’t help :frowning:

Final solution? Remove the BAD and everything runs 100%. Makes me sad but it only takes a little work after picking up the carbine to get the muscle memory switched straight.

I am going to keep shooting it as is and see if a couple thousand rounds will “break it in” enough to work with a BAD.

Does anyone think any other of the BAD type offerings out there have a chance of working better? The Phase 5 EBRv2 because it’s one piece?

Has anyone else seen this issue with Mid length gas systems?

Dennis.

2

Has anyone else seen this issue with Mid length gas systems?

Haven’t had that problem on my OBR 556 with a mid length system. It has an 18" barrel. Haven’t tried it on any other midlengths, just carbines.

3

Never had any issues like this. Multiple mid-lengths, 14.5’s, 16’s…

4

You could always try switching to the A5 recoil system. If it doesn’t work atleast you’ve got an A5 recoil system.

5

I have not had any failures to lock on my guns, from 11.5" to 16" barrel, carbine to mid-length gas. But I’ve also seen issues on other people’s guns from 10.5" barrels to 16", carbine to mid-length gas. Not being my guns I haven’t had an opportunity to analyze them.

6

I have a BAD lever on my Noveske Light Recce Basic w/VIS (midlength) and on my Noveske-based SBR. Both have thousands of rounds of all kinds of crap surplus ammo, all using 30 round Pmags…neither rifle has malfunctioned, BAD lever works great for me.

7
  • Worked 90% with USGI with Magpul followers and Wolfe/ISMI springs.

You might want to think about replacing the bolt catch spring and maybe the bolt catch. Could be the spring is slightly stiffer than it should be and or the bolt catch might be setting slightly tighter in the receiver.

8

Thomas M-4 seems like he’s got the diagnosis that makes the most sense.

Is the BAD rubbing against the receiver? Is there flex in the BAD? Pressure from the BAD could be preventing the bolt catch to pop forward. If it’s kinking up somewhere, it might not be giving the bolt catch enough pivot room to fully engage.

9

Did that too, the bolt catch moves freely and the new spring seems about the same as the previous one.

I also tried the upper with a couple other lowers with BADs with the same results.

Dennis.

10

Checked that too, no rubbing or touching. Even loctited it to the bolt catch so it did not move forward or back.

Dennis.

11

I’m experiencing similar issues using Fedxm193 &PMC 55gr on a 10.5" LWRC shorty using the H2 buffer, 20 & 30 round PMags.
Funny thing is,
Bolt will lock back on all the other ammo I shoot: Wolf, Tula, Custom 69gr reloads, 55gr gunshow reloads.
I am going to switch back to the H buffer to see if I get any different results.

Someone mentioned A5 buffer system…can I use my UBR with this?

TIA.

12

:frowning: Well it sounds like your upper doesn’t like the BAD little confusing.
I have a buddy that has a 14.5’’ middy with a BAD installed that seems to work with out any problems.

13

Negative. The UBR uses an A2 “type” extension (smooth/cylindrical).

A5 is like a CAR extension with a “male enhancement”.

I’m at a loss. I would say HIGHLY confusing.

14

I am pretty sure that we have had other members report some issues as well. I believe that some of them were LMT.

15

Negative is uses its own proprietary extension with a carbine buffer.

16

I know of a gent that “tunes” his BADs.

What he discovered (his words) is that, when the bolt catch is engaged, some BAD levers will touch the side of the lower receiver where the lever curves to traverse the trigger well. The theory is that this might keep the bolt catch from being able to engage in the midst of being bounced around under fire.

He’ll bend his levers so that, when installed, they don’t come closer than 1/16" of the receiver, no matter what. He’s been successful each of 4 times, so I think he may be on to something.

17

…

18

if the bolt catch area doesnt have a lot of play in it, adding the BAD just slows it down risking a failure to lock back on empty

have about 5 BADs here on various lowers (DPMS, CMMG, Spikes), midlength uppers, and have had no problems even with steel case ammo.

19

I had the same problem with a BAD lever too…as have plenty of other people. As far as I can gather, some rifles just don’t work well with them - its got nothing to do with brands, either, it seems to be individual weapons. I took mine off and sold it, lesson learned I’ll never put one on again. I like the concept and function but now have no confidence in them - 100% last round bolt hold function is most important to me.

20

Darn! That sounded so good I ran downstairs and re-installed my BAD to check… Alas, it wouldn’t touch no matter how hard I pressed :(. I guess that’s good but a solution would have been better!

How would you “tune” it anyways? With a torch I assume…

Thanks!

Dennis.