Are video games a cause of the violence?

General General Discussion
1

I ask this because of an Op-Ed I skimmed through that has “researchers” saying the violent video games do not lead to aggressions, or that there are no “scientific proof” that video games lead to violence.

http://seattletimes.com/html/opinion/2020569751_jarednieuwenhuisopedxml.html

Then explain to me Jonesboro, Arkansas? Explain to me Paducah, KY in 1997? Explain Adam Lanza and his trove of video games in his room?

Violent video games may not necessarily lead to aggression, but as David Grossman pointed out in On Combat, they do teach killing. He calls them “Mass Murder Simulators.” Carneal, the shooter in Paduch, was 8 for 8. 8 shot, 8 hits. As Grossman described, Carneal had no real firearms training, but he was an avid first person shooter at the time. The only firearms training he had was the day before the shooting when he shot through two magazines through the gun he had just stolen.

The other thing to point out is that these games are creating a “high score” effect on these mass shooters, killing as many people as they can to get the highest possible score, the winner getting their face on Time Magazine.

Then there is Lanza. Lanza was reported to have changed magazines during his mass murder spree, only firing 15 rounds in some mags before changing out. As was reported, this is a “gamers” tactic: reloading right after a kill, or before going in to another room. Granted, through many tactical schools, during a lull in the gun fight, top off the weapon. But this was very different. And where did Lanza learn to do that? I’m leaning on games with maybe some youtube commando training (or the bit torrents of Magpul Dynamics…yes, they are out there). But there is only two ways he learned how to do that in a repetitive motion: either practicing with the actual firearm several times–and by some accounts, Mom kept the AR locked up–or through the games.

Granted, I love FPS like the next guy. I use them to have fun but also train on the cheap side. I will not get weapons manipulation down, recoil management, or proper shooting positions ingrained in me without having hands on and repetitive practice. I do, however, gain reaction, shoot/no-shoot, understanding sight picture, and minor tactics like when to top off mags. And those skills are the big fundamentals in shooting to start with, and the most cruical

If any of you all play Call of Duty and the like, they show how to manipulate the weapon from changing the magazine, to pressing the release button. Americas Army, a FREE FPS sponsored by the U.S. Army actually goes down to the charging handle, SPORTS, and marksman skills. With a little Youtubing from other Internet commandos, you can achieve the basic software to run the hardware at a basic level. With unarmed targets that do not shoot back, and a multitude of them, the impact is limitless, even with a 1911 and a bag of several 7 round magazines; or a revolver. Shooting the teacher in a room full of kindergardners, or 4th graders will zap all motivation to tackle the gun man when they are reloading. The heard mentality will take over and it is the most lethal component in these situations.

The gun lobby does not have the power that the Media and the left would like people to think. It is the Entertainment industry and Big Pharma that has the power and money. We have not heard zip about the meds the shooters were on before their sprees. And now video games are not the answer. From the article posted, they are looking in the wrong damn place. Anybody can be aggressive. Teaching them how to channel that is what is attributing to the mass killings. Not to mention Gun Free Zones; sheep pastures where sheepdogs are prohibited from bringing their teeth.

Last note to point out: Lanza shoot those kids multiple times, with some reports saying over ten times. How many shoots do most CoD games need to take down other players?

2

That is the same conclusion Norwegian researchers have reached.

Saying that video games cause violence is akin to saying that guns cause violence. If you look at it statistically, the ratio of non-killers who play video games to killers who play video games is greatly favoring the non-killers. It is not possible to say that a person playing a violent computer game has an X percent chance of going ballistic at one point in his life.

I would say that blaming video games is taking focus away from the real issue; mental health.

Those cases are where video games can compound whatever issues the individual has. If a person is undiagnosed with say “antisocial personality disorder”, an environment where that individual stays isolated from society playing games, receiving social stimulus not experienced in his outside life and so forth, is not healthy for that individual. There might also be several other conditions as well, such as anxiety, depression and so forth.

As has been stated in these discussions before, many people close to the perpetrators of these incidents (parents, friends, teachers) have more than likely seen indicators that would have caused a psychologist or psychiatrist to react. That is also the problem, laymen aren’t qualified to analyse behavioral signs in people, and very few parents, siblings etc would readily think or admit that someone close to them is probably a danger to society.

The guy you referenced in Paducah, Michael Carneal, suffered from paranioa, diagnosed after the fact. The shooters in Jonesboro seems to have had some issues as well.

3

I feel the bigger issue is in the home, and kids being raised without morals, without a sense of ownership for their actions and without a strong male influence in their lives.

Video games are not the only thing to be balmed but every venue of mass media. The current graduating seniors are exposed to over 18,000 murders by the time they reach the age of 18 (TV, video games, movies, music etc.). That level of desensitization can only have a negative effect on an individual.

I remember being a child and when I shot my first rabbit (around the age of 5 or 6) and the importance my dad put into the power that a firearm has and the responsibility we have when it comes to living creatures. I’m afraid that many of the youth of this current generation do not share that same respect for life and just think you can get a “do over” by hitting the reset button or waiting until the next re-spawn.

4

The problem is people often confuse correlation with causation. Let’s assume every mass murderer since the 90s plays many hours of violent video games on a daily basis. Can you assume that video games cause mass murder? No, because millions of people play those games and do not commit mass murder. But there is correlation, so what is the relationship? People predisposed to mass murder are drawn to violent video games. One doesn’t cause the other, but a third variable (mental illness of the sort and severity to create a mass murderer) leads to both.

Also, the only video games I’ve ever seen to teach real world skills are certain racing games (not arcade racers like GTA or NFS) and certain flight simulators, and both only if you have the proper equipment like a wheel, pedals, sticks, throttle, etc. And even then, it’s much more effective if you race or fly in the real world first and use games to keep sharp rather than learning the skill from the video game itself.

Everything you can learn about shooting from a video game you can learn better from YouTube or a Google search.

Funny story, in Counter Strike 1.6, to charge the M4, you pull on the forward assist, which is located on the left side of the weapon.

5

http://m.ign.com/videos/2013/01/11/game-scoop-why-the-game-violence-conversation-is-important

6

Ok I have played just about every FPS under the sun since I was old enough to hold a controller. Too blame video games entirely is just crazy but if you look at violent video game they are rated age appropriate. So to all of the parents that are letting tshirt young children play a game meant for 18 year olds and above I say that they are a bigger concern than the game itself. A lot of parents don’t look at anything they just buy it and shove their kids off to their rooms to play a game for days without actually seeing what they are playing. Plain and simple it’s a baby sitter for them.

7

Schools, television, Internet, and video games are raising our children.
Parents are not.

The answer doesn’t need to be anymore complicated than that.

8

Agreed.

Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.

9

Personally, I believe it is a combination of lack of moral fiber being taught at home, school, and in society in general. Nothing is taboo, or wrong anymore.

Add to that this crap of we are all special little flowers, and the are no winners and losers, and you get people who get VERY disappointed with reality when they are finally forced to face it.

10

That’s the issue. Instill a moral code, responsibility, and respect for others…and viola…your young man doesn’t grow up to be a doucherocket.

11

I never read any info from grossman that shows a demonstratable correlation between vigga games and mass shooters.

PBS has a show on youtube that is pretty good on the subject, just watched it last night night. The highest demographic for mass shooters are young males with a history of aggression and and depression with a paranoid world view who have the feeling that no one takes notice of there problems. They’d rather go out as somebody then continue to live as a nobody.

sent from mah gun,using my sights

12

I agree, and this is very difficult to do when your teenager spends hours alternating between web porn and World of Warcraft. Parenting requires a high level of attendance.

13

One of the things I have been learning about the human brain as part of information theory is we WANT an explanation. Explanations make things easier to understand and even store in our brain–especially for highly “improbable” events like mass shootings. The truth is complex and hard to understand–it is easy to “blame” video games. Just as you ask explain X, Y, and Z: Explain all the shooters who DIDN’T play “violent” video games. What about all of us that DO play games but don’t shoot up schools. What makes the difference between “normal” people and lunatics who commit crimes.

For some insight into how our brain works with regards to information and facts, I recommend reading the following book (Now I didn’t start reading this book because of mass shooting, but for dealing with “disasters” in process controls and how we deal with statistics and information (which is my line of work), but the overlap in incredible and the insight into how and WHY our brains work this way is very insightful.):

The Black Swan: The Impact of the Highly Improbable by Nassim Nicholas Taleb.

(Black Swan is a reference that ALL data (8000 years of recorded western history) prior to the discovery of Australia/New Zealand was that ALL swans were white–until they discovered black swans “Down Under”–and what that means for logic and how we reach conclusions).

14

I want to know what vidja garmes Charles Whitman and Andrew Kehoe played.

15

Like anything else moderation and making better decisions about how you raise your kids does a lot more than blaming something. These games all have age ratings on them, and if you buy a game for a kid with an age rating twice as old as they are, and let them play it all day long for a week straight then that is not the game’s fault.

For some reason we have this infatuation with pinning the blame on something, and then trying to ban it. We never address the root cause or accept that sometimes bad shit just happens, and we can never completely do away with risk or stop mentally ill people from acting out.

I expose my kids to a lot of technology and they have video games they enjoy. But we don’t replace parenting or doing other things for it. It doesn’t rule their lives. They are six, and I found a good program for teaching kids how to write computer code. We live in a technological world now, and our kids need to learn how to use it as well as how it works. There are a ton of older people who can barely do more than hit the on/off button and peck at the keyboard.

16

So with this violence and video games thing… Is life imitating art or is art imitating life? This question isn’t a new one, it’s simply a different media.

The main difference, as has already been pointed out is that parents aren’t really parents anymore. They’re just the people who keep the feed trough full and the lights on. Many kids nowadays have next to zero “responsibilities” and next to zero accountability. I know that I was too busy to get into trouble when I was a kid, and that was by my parents design… as actual “parents”.

Look at nearly every aspect of our lives these days. Everything is focused around faster, faster, faster. Instant meals means less invested time to prepare them, DVR means you don’t have to wait to watch something when you want to watch it, DSL means anything you want to see can be seen in seconds.

I think if we got a little further away from the instant gratification complex, the world would be a better place. (as I type this on a computer, connected to the internet and post it immediately :smiley: )

17

Saying that any phenomena has one cause is a logical mistake, wanting to take the easy intellectual route.

There are likely many causes. I think video games might desensitize a person who already has something wrong in their brain, but do they “cause violence,” probably not.

Contributing factors could include…

violence in the media
violence in video games (different than the media because the person participates)
the hero/anti-hero way the media portays the perpetrators
psychotropic drugs
the alienation many people feel in a more crowded society
the lack of effective parenting
the lack of effective schooling

All of these are of different importance to different people, and most people are exposed to all of these things yet only 0.000001% of us ever commit these atrocious acts

18

after playing Grand Theft Auto I could not stop beating up hookers… Oh wait… No I didn’t

Come on guys, you don’t really buy this crap do you?

19

Video games are not a cause of violence.

They may, however, be contributing factors. Someone who is already predisposed to this behavior (whether due to drugs, biology, or whatever other reasons) probably finds “encouragement” through violent video games. They may learn skills useful to such behavior, and seek the “glory” found in the game. It may desensitize the person some as well.

But the game is not the cause. The game did not make the person predisposed to violence in the first place.

20

Overwhelming majority of people that play video games, even violent ones, are decent, normal, people. Video games are not just for kids. Lots of murders are committed by people who play video games.

The overwhelming majority of people that own firearms, even scary “assault style” weapons, are decent, normal, people. Guns aren’t just for scumbags. Lots of murders are committed by people who don’t own guns.

The overwhelming majority of single parents, even in poor communities, are decent, normal people, who raise decent normal kids. Lots of murders are committed by kids from affluent, two parent households.

Putting the onus of criminal behavior on a video game, or a gun, or lack/lot of religion, parenting is equally nonsense.

Some people are just broken, they are responsible for their own decisions. Looking for some reason why they do what they do, is fruitless.

Thinking it will go away if we just didn’t have video games, or single parent households etc…is no different than those that think it will go away if we just get rid of guns.