I keep seeing ads and posts for lights with 100, 150, 200 lumens and going higher. I can’t help but remember the <60 lumen Surefire 2-cell light I started with and marveled at it’s brightness, and now there are lights 4x as bright.
I also wonder if they’re not getting like the dB ratings on cans where they are over-stated at best.
For handheld lights I find myself gravitating to the longer runtime than the super-brightness.
Any thoughts?
I have 4 different lights - all with different brightness levels.
My favorite light was inexpensive and has held up wonderfully. It is 115 lumens and the battery life is good. For me, the brighter lights make it tougher to see my target when doing training in a fully dark environment. The brighter lights do light more of the room, but they wash out my target. I have one that’s so bright that it reflects way too much light back at me.
With that said it seems that most of the people I shoot with prefer the brightest light they can get and many of them shine the light directly at their target (on purpose).
I don’t have any objective means of measuring lumens, but I think you’re right.
I also think that there are a couple of other considerations, specifically “throw” and light quality / color that, above some minimum level of lumens (I’m thinking 60 indoor and 90 outdoor), are as important or more important.
I’m not at all convinced that 2x the lumens equals 2x the effective / usable level of light.
I also think that the longer run time is more than a little misleading. When SureFire came out with the P60L lights, they were advertising 80ish lumens and an 11 hour run time. What was in the fine print was that the 80 lumens lasted 60-75 minutes, and then you had another 10 hours of “useable light”. And somewhere in that 10ish hours, you fall below 60.
Now, this isn’t a knock against SF, because I’m putting someone’s kid out there through college, and pretty much won’t own anything else. I’m just saying that this particular line of advertising was somewhat misleading.
The other question I ask is that when you get a 100-150-200 lumen hand held light, what is the cost in battery life, bulb life, and overall durability?
I don’t have a need for anything over 125 lumens so I tend to ignore stuff that bills itself as being above the 125 mark. I do have a Surefire 10X that puts out over 500 lumens but it sits on my table because it is overkill for work and home use
I have a 2000 Lumen Surefire M6. (Brighter than my cars headlights)
1hr run time with 17670 rechargeable.
“The 5 outside rebels are running on their own independent shark
running at 980mA; using custom .3” flood reflectors.The 5 inside Cree Q4s are running on their own independent shark at
980mA; using trimmed minimag LED reflectors.The center Cree Q5 is running on an independent downboy at 1000mA;
using a trimmed mcr17 reflector.The aluminum heatsink is one solid piece; with all electronics potted
in thermal epoxy. The reflectors are held in focus and together with
glow in the dark epoxy.The light will run on 6x123; 6xR123; or 3x17670 using a custom battery cage.
When you put your hand in front of the light you can feel heat. The overall output isroughly2000
lumens.
You can feel the heat if you put your hand in front of a 6P.
No offense to this forum or anybody here, but the guys over at candlepowerforums are WAY better at objectively measuring this stuff (posting comparison photos, using instruments, etc.).
AFAIK, claimed “lumens” is virtually meaningless as a measure of how bright a flashlight will be, except perhaps for within one brand’s own line (so compare a Streamlight’s “lumens” to other Streamlights, but don’t think that Streamlight’s lumens are the same as Surefire’s lumens).
The problem seems to be that there are lots of ways to measure “lumens.” The “overstatement” is to measure how much is generated by the bulb or led, not to measure what’s actually coming out the front of the light.
Obviously, some manufacturers seem to be pretty conscientious about this (Surefire, Malkoff), and some seem quite happy to make preposterous claims.
Bimmer
I’m not so concerned with the power of the light, as I am with the volume of the light. I prefer a wide, even throw (or spill) of light without any hotspot - like a work light.
this won’t really work for a “tactical” light, though, as the range is severely diminished. so we end up with lights that have a hotter spot in the middle for projection and a “spill” area that varies from light to light, depending on who makes it.
in a practical sense, however, the wider the light, the more power is needed.
indoors, I think there is probably a point of diminishing returns but outdoors, I’ll take all I can get.
by far, my favorite handheld light is my Fenix TK10 that is rated at 225 lumens. I don’t have the faintest idea if that is accurate but using it on a moonless night, I was able to vividly see deer across a 150 yard open field and determine their size and if they had horns or not. other peoples’ tac lites and my own G2 were only strong enough to give eye shine.
Lumen ratings can be funny things. In my experience, the ONLY lumen rating you can trust to always match the advertising is Surefire. In my experience, the folks at candlepower forums are light guys, not tactical guys. The folks who wear a uniform that post there that I have met: they are light guys in uniform, not tactics guys. YMMV. Over about 125-150 lumens, you tend to get too much light that washes back when searching light colored rooms and off mirrors.
The SF 10X Dominator is just about perfect for a vehicle takedown because it is disorienting and lights up the interior of the vehicle, even the floor boards. It requires the assualt team to basically have one dedicatted light, guy though.
We have to remember that our mission drives gear selection, not the other way round, (some angry little guy with an accent told me that).
very true. People that are into gear sometimes forget more isn’t always better. This is further aggrivated by those with no practical experience chiming in on issues they don’t know about
:eek:
I agree that more light isn’t always better. More options in light, however, is. Depends on the mission.
My EDC lights are an E1B at 80 lumens and an E2D LED at 120 lumens. They are fine for what I normally need in a personal light. A couple of months ago I got the SF email announcing the E2D LED was now 200 lumens as standard. I’ll probably get one at some point, but my 120 lumen unit is not suddenly inadequate or obsolete.
Same for the 6/9 series. Lots of options in drop-in lamps right now, but I have both the standard P60 incans and some of the LED stuff too.
Like many others, I thought the whole blind-yourself-with-your-own-light thing was BS, until I did it at a seriously inopportune time. Then again, there is the need to throw lots of light across wide patches of prairie from time to time. No single light does it all.
I like options. I don’t have to partake of them, but they are available.
Another poster hit the nail on the head… There are those who consider lights from a technical perspective, and those who consider them from a tactical one. It’s easy to quantify the attributes of a light, and make them understood. It’s much harder to explain and grasp the tactical merits of them without a base of experience in their deployment.
There is definitely a lumen advertising war going on, as well as way too many claims of tactical ninja super features. While this is annoying and confusing to those who just want a good light for Patrol/SWAT/UO-MOUT/FISH & CHIPS/self defense, it IS good for the market as a whole. The adoring $$$ spending geek throngs of flashaholics are advancing technology at a rapid pace and providing better and better options for true professional use. There is no reason for this to devolve into a revolver vs. auto, why Patrol Rifles?, mine works fine so why does anyone need anything else debate. 
I am definitely a flashlight guy whose primary use is tactical. I don’t carry the latest and greatest lights just because I can. I choose, test, and implement my choices carefully and my loadout changes slowly and only for good reason. I would have to say that the vast majority of new super LED lights out there are not well suited to tactical Police use, although brightness is the least of the reasons why. Most have overly complicated user interfaces with too many choices that are hard to choose. Others have weird sizes, strange battery choices, or just plain bad construction and low reliability.
Brighter lights can cause problems if shined directly at a shiny surface, but they work great when pointed lower at the furniture line or higher at the ceiling to illuminate the whole room. Of course, outside use or into vehicles is where they definitely shine. As always, your mission and tactics define your gear. I do building and room clearing as a matter of course for my assignment and I have found ways to work around excessive reflection, which has been a problem since back in the 120 lumen SF P61 days. More light gives you more options, you just have to know how.
My loadout for the past couple years or more has been a SF X300 on my G17 and a SF A2 light with blue LED’s for sneaking around. This even though I have a large selection of cool new lights to choose from. I have no need for a general patrol light in my current job although I keep a couple backup lights in my bag just in case. However, I finally found a super duper light with a decent UI and features applicable to my work and I have started using it to great effect. 400-500+ OTF lumens in a SF 9P size that is rechargeable with good runtime. This would never have been available if it weren’t for the advance of technology provided by high consumer demand and the unavoidable marketing hype.
The same could be said for much of our equipment which we consider “standard” today.
Dennis.
Well, don’t keep us in suspense, what light have you found? 
It sounds like a good one to pack in the bag.
Excellent post, by the way!
I know the lumens stuff is BS, but I do like the cheap Chinese/Korean Cree emitter drop-ins for the 6P and 9P. I tried a quite a few and like the R2, P4 and Q5 using two, three and four cells.
The four cell (9P converted with an A19) is for replacing the area light like a maglight 3D or 4D, and it does a good job. No idea what the lumens are on the LED, but it’s bright and gives good run time.
My go-to lights are incan E2D’s or LED converted 6P’s with either a P4 or Q5 emitter in a drop-in replacement bulb – again, unknown lumen output. Battery life and light are satisfactory to my needs.
I have been looking for a handheld LED light that will take a AA “cartridge” like the one shown above, but haven’t found a good one that represents a good value. I’m not really willing to buy an M6 and then drop another $100+ on the battery cartridge and LED head to convert.
I hope someone is in the lab finally figuring out how to include all the options (Light level, strobe, color) into an interface that is not so cumbersome (ie. click, twist, double click).
Thanks!
I have been carrying an Olight M30 as an additional general/tactical light and it’s been pretty useful and very reliable/tough so far. I bought it because of the smallish 9P size, flexible battery options, extreme brightness with a good spot/spill ratio, a straightforward (although not perfect) UI, and very good reliability reports on the geek forums to include serious drop testing which I have verified accidentally many times now!
The UI consists of the a momentary/click for ON rear switch, and then a recessed secondary switch on the side of the tailcap. Pressing the secondary switch while OFF always gives you full power strobe. Pressing the rear switch gives you momentary or click to ON to the last selected mode of low-medium-high-strobe. You select modes while ON with the side button which cycles through the modes.
This sounds more complicated than it is, I just leave the light in HIGH mode and if I ever use it for low it’s always an Admin function and I always put it back on high when done. If I’m not sure and entering a tactical situation I use the side button for guaranteed high strobe. This isn’t a perfect UI, but it does minimize accidental activation in unwanted modes but also not making it super hard to use with multiple twists or turns of the head. The only other current UI I think that can compare in simplicity are the power ring ones on some tactical Fenix’s (which aren’t nearly as bright!). I like the idea of the SF “Maxblast” tailcap that always gives you full power with a hard press, but then that light is like 3 years late already and nowhere in sight.
The battery options are great too, 3 or 4 CR123 primaries, or 2 sizes of li-ion rechargeables. There is an included extender for using the longer batteries, although I usually just use the shorter batteries to keep the length down since the 60+ minute runtime on high is enough for me given the spares I carry.
Most impressive about this light is the BRIGHTNESS! It is advertised 700 lumens but people are estimating more like 400-500+ OTF lumens. There is a strong spot along with lots of spill. It is brighter than my 10x Dominator. I don’t even think my partners know why rooms are pre lit when I enter 3rd man in a room and I’m shining the M30 on the ceiling.
You need to buy the light and batteries/charger separately, links below. Probably like $200 total depending on what options you choose. I’d be happy to answer any questions anyone may have.
Dennis.
Olight M30 Triton
http://www.batteryjunction.com/olight-m30-triton.html
Smooth tailcap so it will fit into 1" flashlight holsters including SF V70
http://www.batteryjunction.com/olight-m30-tailcap.html
Highest Quality Li-Ion Rechargeable batteries - Larger size
http://www.lighthound.com/AW-18650-Protected-2600-mAh-Rechargeable-Lithium-Battery--New-Version_p_3125.html
Highest Quality Li-Ion Rechargeable batteries - Smaller size
http://www.lighthound.com/AW-18500-Protected-Rechargeable-Lithium-Battery_p_104.html
Li-Ion Charger
http://www.lighthound.com/Ultrafire-WF-139-Charger-for-14500-17500-18500-18650-RCR123-37-volt-Lithium-Battery-Charger_p_2279.html
Geek review with runtime graphs for various battery combinations
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=231491
Geek Video Review
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=229525
Curious as to what experienced folks here make of this:
(from: http://pistol-training.com/articles/handgun-low-light-essentials )
- A general purpose handheld tactical light should put out between 60 and 80 lumens –
This is another point of controversy in the world of flashlight geeks. A lot of people are, to borrow Ken Hackathorn’s description, “absolutely queer” for how many lumens a particular light can generate. Contrary to what people think a light that can double as the bat signal or that puts out enough light to melt the face of a bad guy like that Nazi in Raiders of the Lost Ark is not necessarily a good thing. Remember the opening discussion about how the rods in our eyes can saturate and become useless for a short period of time? The more lumens your light puts out the higher the chances that once you use the light you will actually “flashbulb” yourself when using it. Most interior structures in the United States have walls painted with light colors. Light colors reflect more light than dark colors. Somebody who lights up a normal residential hallway with a 200 lumen face melter even for just a split second is going to experience what is known as the “flashbulb effect”.
The flashbulb effect happens when the rods in your eyes are hit with a flash of light sufficient to saturate them, but not long enough to allow the cones in your eyes to take over completely. This leaves you literally blind for a short period of time…completely unable to see a bloody thing. You can ask the guys who went through the Vickers/Hackathorn low light training courses about too much light.
If anyone doubts the validity of the flashbulb effect, conduct a simple experiment. Find a friend who is a photography nerd and ask to borrow their big camera flash. Wait until it is completely dark in your house and give yourself at least 30 minutes in the dark for your eyes to adjust to their peak night vision efficiency. Then point the camera flash down the hallway and trigger it. See how long it takes you to recover the ability to see to a useful level. You will then understand why it is called the “flashbulb” effect. (Note: You can also set up a game camera in the bathroom and ask the missus to report back on what effect it had on her during the night, but be sure you have a comfortable couch first.) A 60-80 lumen light offers enough power to clearly identify what is going on within the hotspot of the light, but not so much light that you obliterate your night vision entirely.
How valid do you guys feel the “60-80 lumen” thing is?
Dennis, thanks very much. I appreciate your research and the time you took for the post.
I had been looking at the Fenix lights in the past. The Olight sounds very promising. I’ll dig into that.
One thing that has made me hold off thus far is the “twist tail cap thrice, click button twice, pat belly eight times, sprinkle chicken blood on the evildoers…” I am old and feeble, stuff like that is a challenge for me.
I like the “instant high” you described.
I was thinking along the same lines as yourself.
Anything past 150 for a cqc environment is excessive and could potentially be dangerous If not using a filter of some sort.