I agree 100% on rifle velocities. But between the Underwood 357 Sig at 2100 fps and the Underwood 10mm at 1825 fps, I don’t know which one would be more devastating.
I don’t know much about ballistics. Just putting another option out there. And as we know, the 10mm Glock is a much bigger gun, so carrying it might not be as easy.
357 Sig is definitely a great choice. Just discussing options….
Underwood does have several 10mm offerings. Claims 1700 feet per second from 115g, but at what barrel length? I wonder what the velocities would be from a 8" PCC barrel:
https://underwoodammo.com/10mm-auto-115-grain-xtreme-defender/
Underwood claims the 10mm 100gr leaves the barrel at 1825 fps.
https://underwoodammo.com/10mm-auto-100-grain-xtreme-defender/
Talking about PCCs, TNW Firearms makes them in various calibers, including 357 Sig and 10mm.
https://www.tnwfirearms.com/product-p/asrp-xpkg-xxxx-xxxx-brhg.htm
If I was worried about 4 legged critters, then give me a 460 Roland.
2 legged I want the Leighi Defense 68 grain round in either 9mm at near 2000fps out of my Glock 34 and even better after I get the KKM barrel the Glock 35 in .357 sig at 2250to 2275 fps.
These rounds have brought me back to using Glocks due to ability to easily get 6 inch barrels. It is summer in the 90’s in both temp and humidity and I carry the Glock 34 every day.
There are more PCC options in 10mm than 357 Sig for some reason.
https://gundigest.com/rifles/10mm-carbine-what-are-your-options
9x25mm for 90 grain at 2000 fps. Imagine if they loaded 65/68 grain bullets.
Definitely the best choices.
I carry a Sig P365X most of the time, and sometimes a Glock 19 or a Glock 26. I would love to be able to conceal a Glock 34 as easily.
For the 10mm and .45ACP guns, if concerned about whether it’ll fit in your hand, keep in mind that going from Gen 3 to Gen 4, Glock dropped the “SF” slim frame models. This is because the Gen 4 regular model with no backstraps feels like a Gen 3 SF, and a Gen 4 with a Med backstrap feels like a regular Gen 3.
I think the advantages that 357Sig has over 10mm are velocity (although some hot 10mm loads come close) and it’s in-flight ballistics, i.e. it can fly further with less drag than the 10mm. Perhaps flatter shooting?
My concern is that the screaming 65gr Lehigh’s don’t have the sectional density (length compared to diameter) for adequate “rifle” ballistics, or even rifle-like. Yeah, they are one solid piece but once it starts to open the weight will not overcome the drag of expansion, at least as far as I see it. If I am wrong please show me why. It sounds good but I have my doubts about it’s terminal performance.
I too would love to see a pistol caliber bullet zinging in at 2000+fps, especially in a semi-auto. Like the juice I can get from my .357Magnum Rossi/Puma carbine. 158gr hotties (from Underwood) that online chrono data showed to be ~ 1800fps. THAT is what I’m talking about! Of course it’s not a semi, so…
It is not a hollow point, it has flutes milled into the body that create a wave effect that give it a wound channel 2to3 times greater than a hollowpoint. My friends that shot hogs with them were impressed by the damage they did in flesh, and of the rounds they found they said you could reload them since they were still in the same shape as when they were fired. All the testing I have seen with them in gel they are barrier blind and no matter the barrier they still penetrated to the desired depth and still created the same wound channel.
Gotcha. I thought you were talking about the HP all-copper bullets. You are referring to the fluted FMJ ones. I think I have some in .380.
Got to searching a little bit online and the TNW ASR comes in 357Sig. Check out the velocities (granted, from a 16" barrel): https://www.tnwfirearms.com/Articles.asp?ID=261
That is pretty impressive, they are claiming 357 Magnum carbine velocities from the 357 Sig. 2000+ fps for a 125 gr bullet.
Its generally considered bad form to link to another forum, but Glock Talk has a guy showing 2700 fps for 65 gr Underwood from a 16" barrel. Thats freaking smoking!
Andy
Tangential: I recall starting a thread a while back as to why there’s not more .357 Mag carbines. That pistol rnd benefits more from longer barrels than any other I can think of. I know there’s some engineering/functional issues being a rnd designed for revolvers vs pistols, but if that’s issue was overcome, that’s a winner of a carbine all day. Hunters report .357 Mag from longer barrels pushing above 2k FPS one of the most “drop them where they were” rnd they ever used at 100y or so I recall. I recall there was .357 Mag pistols around for a time, don’t know how reliable they were. From what I found when I last looked, .357 Mag lever guns was all I could find. Finally, interesting to note various .44 Mag carbines do exist, yet .357 Mag seems nadda.
I suspect that is because of the reasons you mentioned. I would take a .357 Magnum 16" lever gun > .44 Magnum one hands down.
I think Yoni was looking at a concealable weapon with a shorter barrel than 16", but look at the 9" Glock barrel velocities! Maybe 200fps less! Holy hell! I’ll take it.
Ditto here. The .357 Mag from a rifle length barrel is a most impressive considering grain weight also.
I am sorry look at the chart out of a 6 inch barrel 2269 fps. Before anyone says anything I carry a Glock 34 with a 6inch barrel every day and it is not any harder to carry than a Glock 26, 19, 17, 34. I carry it IWB in the summer in shorts or jeans with a T shirt or button down shirt. In the winter I do the same or go with a shoulder holster.
Then you add a 9 inch AR at almost 2500fps and you got the perfect truck gun back up to your pistol, same ammo, same mags.
I see a lot of reference to .357 Mag in this thread. Now I do love me some .357 Mag, but the design is just not very compatible with auto loaders and box magazines. I mean isn’t that the very reasoning behind the .357 Sig.
I don’t see myself going down the .357 Sig rabbit hole but I do find its performance interesting. Especially these lightweight high velocity bullets.
I wonder about the possibility about pairing this tech with say the 7.62x39. I’ve personally had very good results with light weight bullets in my 375 H&H for hunting. Light rifle bullets have tended to be designed for varmints so it makes me wonder about these solids.
Just last few pages, mostly by me. If they can make it work for .44 Mag, they can make it work for .357 Mag. My only real point is that .357 Mag seems to benefit more from longer barrel lengths than any handgun rnd I’m aware of.
Personally, always viewed the .357 Sig a solution in search of a problem, especially with the modern JHPs that all follow FBI protocols.
As Yoni wants to employ it, a specific projectile getting rifle like velocities from a pistol, and even better from a carbine - not mouse rnd like 5.7 etc - it makes sense “on paper” to me.
But we also know that there’s no stat sig differences in terminal ballistics between typical duty loads in .357 Sig to 9mm, hence why 9mm is chosen, especially when you factor in recoil, costs, etc.
.357 Sig does have some niche advantages over 9mm for intermediate barriers like car windshields and such, so those who are likely to need that, such as state troopers, kept their .357 Sigs. I don’t know what % kept them.