2nd AR BCM Lower/Rainier Arms Upper

AR/M4 Custom Build Forum
1

I recently started putting together a second AR that I want to eventually replace my 1st AR Colt A2 match target for hunting small game in the desert. Nothing wrong with my 1st AR other then I got it during the ban 12 years ago and wanted to try something newer.

I’ve always been a forum lurker for years and decided this AR would be my first forum review before I actually started ordering parts. After a few issues I wasn’t sure if I should still follow through with posting a review but decided finally to do it. The rifle is not completely finished yet as I’m not sure which grip and scope I want to end with but figured I’d show my results and learnings so far.


Lower-
BCM Blemish - touched up with sharpie
Magpul ASAP
Voltor club foot stock

I stated else where but wil again-I first ordered the lower from Grant and asked him if he would install and stake the Magpul ASAP. He did so and shipped it quickly to me. I’m impressed with his service and noticed that a inspection sheet was included with the order on things to check before shipping. I like this as I think it could cut down on people having small issues and maybe helped some of my upper issues if this was done by Rainer Arms.

Upper- Ordered custom with WOA Barrel
Rainer Arms Combat Series Upper- CB16
Added WOA 16" match barrel
Rainier Arms MilSpec Upper Reciever
VTAC 11" rail
Full auto BCG
5.56 MP tested bolt with crane o-ring
LMT Tactical charging handle
Rainier Arms XTC

I contacted Rainier Arms about switching out the barrel on thier CB16 upper and they were quick to respond with a yes and different prices for different barrels I was interested in. Prices were real good so called in and ordered my upper and was qouted 1-2 weeks and the upper came in at 2 weeks. They actually called me while building the upper to see where I wanted the rail pieces which I thought was great costumer service (gets me later on thou). So far so good.

The upper was packaged really well and looked great so I cleaned/lubed it and noticed the firing pin was missing some metal under the chrome lining at the tip of the pin. I compared this firing pin in my Colt bolt and Rainier Arms bolt and found the one with missing metal had alot of slop when extended into the bolt face. Also the chrome lining looked spotty when you see or feel it in person. Later I order a BCM firing pin which is good to go and put this one in the spare parts bin.Maybe it wouldn’t be an issue down the road but I’m not good with maybe. No biggy now lets go shoot.

Scope-
Bushnell 3200 Elite - Temporary till i’m sure which scope I’ll end with
Primary Arms Mount - Temporary till i’m sure which scope I’ll end with

Day 1- @200 rds
I don’t have any pictures of day one as I was sighting in the scope at the range my buddy is a member at and decided to take pictures once I start shooting ammo I loaded up specifically for this rifle. After 200 rounds of walmart 55gr Federal ammo I decided to try my reloads I made for the review and to find the load this gun likes.

Load the mag and hit the mag release then pull the trigger. Nothing happens so I look at the bolt and see it’s barely open. I had to mortar the stuck live round out of the rifle using the LMT charging handle which I must say has proved to be great. This round was really stuck and had a pretty good primer dent once finally out. More then you usually see with just releasing the bolt. I got lucky on that one.

I preceded to load the same rounds in my Colt and fire away. Now my range day is done as my buddies rib me about the worst jam any of us has seen and my flashy new upper. It was my time as I usually am the one dishing it out.

I called Rainier Arms and they said they weren’t sure what was the issue and tested fired with 55 gr ammo due to cost. I figured this and notice they did actually test fire it as it had residue when I cleaned it. They mentioned trying WOA and asking them if they had any idea’s. They had a great attitude and didn’t get defensive at all stating send it back if you want but I wanted to check some more things out before shipping my new upper off.

I then contacted WOA and talked to John about my issue with 69gr and 75 gr reloads jamming and it didn’t go well. I’ll leave it at that and he didn’t seem interested in checking the barrel.

I found an archived thread here on WOA barrels and how they are picky with ammo so I ordered small base dies which have fixed the issue but now out of all my shooting buddies I’m the only one whose AR requires small base dies which sucks. I grabbed my 308 ammo one day and wasn’t able to use my buddies ammo as it was reloaded with full size dies. My fault but still sucks.

Day 2- @100rds

I went out to the desert real quick one day to test out the small base die ammo and everything functioned this time but group size was less impressive then I expected. It also seemed to be stringing down and right as the barrel got hot. I checked to make sure the barrel was free floated and found the rail piece installed when the upper was built hitting the gas block:nono:. I removed this rail and used a 2" rail alittle further back. You can see in the pictures where it left a mark as it was wedged in pretty good. Not real happy at this point as I’m pretty sure everyone would know not to do this with a FF hand guard.

[b][u]

Day 3 + 4 @250 rds[/u][/b]
The groups have been getting better but still not where I want them as this a tiny bit better then my A2 Colt does and expected better with a stainless steel barrel.

average of mostly 10 rd groups (mess up rd count some times)at 100yards- not a great way of measuring it but works
1st day = didn’t get data due to flustered with gun jamming
2nd day= 2.181"
3rd day=1.663"
4th day= 1.515"

I’ve been mostly shooting bolt guns lately so took alittle getting used to the AR again and think with more practice and working up a better load these will continue to shrink.

Summary-The good
-Really like the voltor stock and BCM lower as the trigger has gotten better then my match target in only a few hundred rounds
-VTAC rail is great and doesn’t seem that hot even thou i fire at a pretty good pace and it has been 110 degrees everyday I’ve take it out
-Magpul ASAP Not much to say other then I like it.
The OK
-Disappointed with the performance of the upper but seems to be improving, Rainier Arms had a good attitude when I called said I could ship it in anytime and they would try to make it right. Will continue to buy from them. Also I used up all of my favorite components making the test ammo before I knew that I needed small base dies and have been using different powder for this ammo then I usually use in 223.
The Bad
-WOA 16" Barrel
I really don’t like the fact that the chamber is tighter then spec and won’t run full length die ammo as all the AR’s in my group of buddies runs this including another AR in wylde chamber(different manufacturer) that shoots tighter then mine. I usually never use steel case ammo in AR’s only due to reloading the round but I would if needed but not in this rifle as I’m afraid it would pop a primer.
-attention to detail when assembling the upper couldn’t of been to good as I found a lose screw that fell from inside the hand guards and the rail wedged against the gas block. I may check the torque on the barrel in the future just to be sure.
-Firing Pin from the thunder bolt was pretty bad quality and should of been shipped out in my eyes. Replaced with BCM firing pin.

I was really hoping at the start to have an all positive review and expected no less as I never have really had any issues with my guns in the past other then wear and tear. Not looking to bash anyone just wanted to share my experience.

I need to find a good pistol grip that is larger then the standard and hash out which scope I finally want to go with. Was holding out for the viper pst but may not make it that long.

2

Outstanding review!

And thanks for the tip about WOA.

3

Thanks Dail621

A short update is due as Rainier Arms contacted me after I posted this to talk to me about my upper and things I found. They are definitely committed to make sure their customers are a 100% satisfied with their product. I expected no less after talking with them the first time I experienced issues with the upper. I will continue to buy from them with confidence in the future.

After talking with the person again that built my upper I’m positive the issues regarding the rail/gas block isn’t normal for their builds. They stated they can usually get the rail in the forward position with out contacting the gas block and apologized about my touching. It was hard to see the contact without a light and I missed it twice when cleaning until I suspected my groups were stringing so not a obvious find.

They also sent me a firing pin to replace the one that came with my thunder bolt and included a return envelope for the firing pin with the issues. They want to check it out as they haven’t had any issues yet with these. Only reason I didn’t ask them for a replacement before was due to already ordering stuff from BCM and it’s only a $6 part.

In regards to the barrel they said they would work something out with me if the WOA chamber continued to bother me. Currently the rifle continues to shoot alittle more accurately every time I have it out without any stuck cases since using small base dies (@900 rounds since last jam). I’ll try some different factory ammo next month and if it doesn’t choke I’ll keep it as is. I still need to get more components and see how rifle will do with benchrest primers and the powder I usually use. Only had the rifle together for 3 months and just haven’t had the time to hit the stores in town. I’ll be honest thou after talking with WOA on the phone this is my first/last WOA product.

Forgot to mention I changed from a H buffer to a H2 buffer and it is running pretty smooth now. The rifle handles well when shooting from standing position.

Also the XTC comp does really well out here in the desert. The second day I was in a wash with heavy sand prone with no issues of the muzzle blast blowing things around. All the times I’ve had it out since has been then have been in the desert with the powdery type dirt that kicks up just from normal walking. The muzzle blast with the XTC comp didn’t kick up any dust at all when shooting prone. I was mostly on a small duffle bag but at times was shooting just on the dirt without issue.

I put a MOE grip on the pistol yesterday and I’m positive this will help my shooting out with better trigger finger placement. I’m going to add one of these to my other AR also after feeling the difference.

Once it cools off a little my buddies and I are going to start hunting again. I’ll be taking the BCM/Rainier Arms rifle and put my other AR in the safe for retirement until my kids get bigger.

Here is a picture of the AR being moved to safe duty with my examples of how I practice shooting moving targets. Makes for a nice post shoot meal also.

4

Great initial write-up and follow-up, pennzoil. And I give you credit for keeping your cool regarding the various issues you encountered. It looks like it’s a shooter, and if it were mine, I’d still be generally pleased with it despite the hiccups.

I’ve read very, very good things about Ranier Arms before. I hope to do business with them someday.

5

Thanks Hikeeba

Guess I haven’t said it yet but I’m really happy with the rifle so far. It only weighs roughly 1 pound more then my colt match target and that’s fully equipped with scope, sling, and bipod(8oz) which may come off when hunting but makes a good hand stop. It handles better for me while standing/moving then my colt. More then likely when I finally find a scope I like and different mount the weight will come down a touch more.

It would of been ideal if the upper came in perfect like the lower from Grant @ G&R Tactical but shit happens some times and people make mistakes. I believe that how you act after a mistake is what shows what a person/company is truly made of. I’m sure someone has said it better but you get the idea.

Rainier Arms actually talked with me for awhile to get the full run down of my impressions of the upper and was very organized in making sure they covered everything. Seemed to me that they are interested in all opinions to ensure the best possible product. This upper was a bargain in my book coming in way under what they sell the ultra match upper for. This isn’t an ultra match upper it’s just their combat series with a WOA barrel so I’m sure the ultra match upper would be lights out like they advertise.

I’m surprised it does so well with junk bulk loaded federal ammo. If you take my 69 grain reloads out of the group averages it’s shooting 1 moa out to 100 yards with me behind the stick others may do better(embarrassing as my reloads usually perform). Tomorrow when I go shooting I’ll spend more time shooting at 200+. I shot paper at 200 with this federal ammo and was under 1.5 moa with 10 shots before I found the gas block hitting the rail piece and hit 12" steel easily at 300. I can’t wait to see what it will do with true match quality ammo.

6

The fact that the upper ran 200rd of factory ammo and then only choked with handloads leads me to think that you don’t have a chamber problem.

I had a similar issue with a Colt HBAR. My handloads worked fine with the Colt but would not chamber in a new Armalite upper that I picked up. When I got a chamber gage it showed that I was not sizing the cases down enough. Since I was using the Colt chamber to measure case sizing it was giving me a false reading. Turning the sizing die down a little more fixed the problem.

7

Thanks for the advice.

I’ll make a dummy round with the full size dies a try again while making some coffee this morning. I don’t think I have cam-over yet just barely touching the shell holder so i’ll turn the die down some.

Worst case it gives me alittle practice mortering a stuck case.

8

Nice write up, thanks for sharing.

9

5pins you were right and turning the die down did fix the issue with the full size dies. Thanks!

I wish I would of tried this earlier but messed with it a little on the day I had the stuck case and was pretty frustrated by then and decided it best to let it be. I’ll still use the small base dies for now as I have to cam over to get the full size dies to work and it puts some stress on the press.

Below are the case dimensions I recorded with my calipers on a few cases I did. Good thing is now I have more dummy rounds for training. It looks like the issue I’m having is the case neck diameter at the shoulder. B in the cheese ball drawing. It seems like anything above 0.249 and it starts to have issues.

Green is Good and Red is Stuck

This surprised me as I figured D diameter would be my issue as when the case sticks it really sticks. I’m all out of the wally world federal 55gr and have to go get some after my coffee but when I check this ammo before it was really undersized.

10

Took the rifle out again today and put another couple hundred rounds through it. Only had the federal 55 gr as I still haven’t gotten more powder and primers. The rifle did really well at 100 yards and beyond. I put together a short video to end this review showing the XTC dust signature/occasional flash and of shooting some 1" rope we found at our shooting spot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRp1miZ-W-0

11

pennzoil,

Thank you for posting this. I am interesting in getting a CB16 upper from Rainier Arms. If you had to do it over again, would you still opt for the White Oaks Armament barrel or would you have gone with the stock one?

12

TannerBoyl

I think I would of upgraded to centurion barrel (price was close if I remember right) if I had to do it all over again but tbh I’m starting to warmup to the WOA barrel. I’ll be honest that I’m really holding a grudge over the way WOA handled a customer calling in with questions. If you email rainier with exactly what you want when your ready to buy they will give you a list of prices for the different options.

Reason I upgraded the barrel is that I wanted a midlength gas tube and the stock CB16 has carbine length.

With that said thou no matter what you get if you have issues(which I doubt) Rainier Arms will take care of you as they stand behind their product. I’ll be ordering another upper from them in the near future.

13

I bought a spikes lower / Rainier Arms Upper, the fit is rock solid, no play at all… very satisfied. Built with mid bcm hammer forged barrel, a real Franken gun.