Am I becoming a AR-15 snob?

[Army Chief]

We just had a very similar thread show up on the 1911Forum, where folks were trying to gauge whether they constituted an "Elite" group of 1911 owners because they had purchased Wilson Combat pistols. I probably took a harder line on the matter than necessary, but I find it ridiculous when people connect their own self-worth to their purchase decisions, or the things that they happen to own. "Elite" designations come from the things that you DO in life, and not from the things that you buy along the way.

So it is with this discussion. I absolutely advocate buying the very best kit that one can afford (and believe me, it is twice as expensive in the long run to invest in second-rate stuff), but none of this should translate into a smug, self-congratulatory attitude. There is a world of difference between (a) quietly sharing the line with another AR shooter who clearly has no idea what he is doing, offering good-natured counsel when asked, and (b) smirking at the guy as if he is an insufferable idiot, and you are the bastion of all knowledge.

Makes no difference if we're talking cars, guns, beer or power tools -- folks always respond better to a kind-natured mentor who genuinely wants to help them improve than to an arrogant ass who just might happen to be right about a few things, but who can't be troubled to waste his time beyond making a few snarky comments. It's Human Nature-101.

If you spend much time around the guys who really, really know their craft, and who truly live this stuff, you tend to find that they are very soft-spoken and modest -- almost to the extreme. To my mind, that is a model worthy of emulation.

AC

[Beachboy]

We just had a very similar thread show up on the 1911Forum, where folks were trying to gauge whether they constituted an "Elite" group of 1911 owners because they had purchased Wilson Combat pistols. I probably took a harder line on the matter than necessary, but I find it ridiculous when people connect their own self-worth to their purchase decisions, or the things that they happen to own. "Elite" designations come from the things that you DO in life, and not from the things that you buy along the way.

So it is with this discussion. I absolutely advocate buying the very best kit that one can afford (and believe me, it is twice as expensive in the long run to invest in second-rate stuff), but none of this should translate into a smug, self-congratulatory attitude. There is a world of difference between (a) quietly sharing the line with another AR shooter who clearly has no idea what he is doing, offering good-natured counsel when asked, and (b) smirking at the guy as if he is an insufferable idiot, and you are the bastion of all knowledge.

Makes no difference if we're talking cars, guns, beer or power tools -- folks always respond better to a kind-natured mentor who genuinely wants to help them improve than to an arrogant ass who just might happen to be right about a few things, but who can't be troubled to waste his time beyond making a few snarky comments. It's Human Nature-101.

If you spend much time around the guys who really, really know their craft, and who truly live this stuff, you tend to find that they are very soft-spoken and modest -- almost to the extreme. To my mind, that is a model worthy of emulation.

AC

Lock this thread. In my opinion there isn't anything left to be said. AC has once again summed it all up and focused on the important, instead of the trivial.

[Beachboy]

It's easy to be a dick to people, but everyone who is sincerely interested in the firearms community should take the time to attempt to help people who are young or just new to firearms. And that is a sincere interest to teach, inform, as well as empathize with people who maybe a Del Ton, CMMG, or Bushy maybe all they can afford. Show them how they can make improvements, how they can make sure there particular weapon is as reliable as it can be, etc.

Excellent points, this is where we all should try to give back or pay forward to those young or new shooters.

[Army Chief]

We all may have wanted one, but we didn't all get to ride a Schwinn Stingray to school, did we? (Well, I didn't, anyway.)

Sometimes it just takes a while to get to where you really, really want to be.

Learn, grow, make good decisions ... it's a process.

AC

[jaxman7]

"Elite" designations come from the things that you DO in life, and not from the things that you buy along the way.

AC

Hope you don't mind brother. Stealing this for a signature line. Eloquent words.

-Jax

[Blak1508]

AC were you a English teacher at some point or a psychological communicator? I ask because you have such a great way with words, your delivery and content is always spot on and when I see a thread that you have responded to I am always eager to read it, along with taking information from your post.

To the subject at hand, I know a few that decided to intervene and or start their interest in firearms with the recent panic, and honestly is was not the best time to start but in other thinking its an ally gained and we can never have to many of them. A friend of mine bought 2 BM carbon 15's during the panic and not long after his purchase he and I conversed and found out that we have similar interest. I am also new to the scene but I concider myself lucky in that I asked for advice and followed it before I spent my hard earned money on a AR, my friend went on his on Intuition which "you don't know, what you don't know" truly shined. Since then I've passed the advice given to me, backed by information gathered here.

Together we are trying to offload those 2 BM, probably taking a small loss on them but that I would build him something in their place and he would not miss that loss afterward. I offered to build him an AR of quality and promised that it would be dependable.
I feel as though I was lucky in asking and taking advice from others, at first I did not know the right way to approach my buddy, but the more I thought about it I felt that if I could do so in a way that was non-attacking or arrogant that I'd be able to help him and preventing what could be an absolute loss of money to him or worse if it came down to him needing to use it. All I really did was open a door and welcomed him to walk through it. In the end this also helped me. I am still compiling items for him and when ever he and I get a chance we hit the range, little by little I explain why I choose the items for my build and for my complete I've spent so much money on different configurations that hopefully I can save him from making some of the same mistakes I did. I may have even talked him into the adaptive carbine 1 course, which I'm very excited about.

As I think Grant and a few others said we all start somewhere and hopefully we grow from that point, change or knowledge is a process and it's definitely not just an event. Nothing is wrong with being proud of knowledge but using it and material to belittle others in my opinion is a step in the wrong direction. From Bob Marley," I am not perfect and I do not claim to be, but before you point your finger at me make sure your hands are clean" I feel the same can be said about myself who am I to judge? But offering solidified advise that's something totally different . At times I need to put myself in check and you gentleman are a sobering testament to that, as I learn something new here every day.

[Agnostic]

I am new to ARs. I originally wanted to find a rifle that met the following criteria:

1. Accurate - I have never owned a rifle with 1.5 MOA accuracy or better with good ammo other than old heavy bolt guns.
2. Semi automatic - I prefer semi auto rifles, shotguns, and pistols over other action types.
3. Chambered in .223 - I wanted to be able to shoot a lot with it.

I started research by looking at the Mini 14 and found out quickly it would not meet my needs. All of my research lead to the AR15, so I researched further. I started lurking on internet forums. Luckily I found this site. The expertise on this site is fantastic! I ended up with a BCM 16" SS410 upper, and it meets the criteria I set out to fulfill.

I am grateful for the information I have found on m4carbine.net. I have a rifle that is accurate and I can be very happy that my rifle is quality. I hope soon to SBR a lower and put together a 12.5" fighting rifle for home defense. I know that if I am willing to listen and read that I will end up with a high quality, reliable rifle.

Thanks to everyone on this site that is so willing to pass along their knowledge! As a newcomer I am luckily to have a resource like m4carbine.net where true experts are willing to help folks like me.

[Army Chief]

AC were you a English teacher at some point or a psychological communicator?

Nothing so profound as that, no; however, I did go to kindergarten twice. Not surprisingly, I'm a pretty good speller, I don't much mind sharing my stuff and I always appreciate a good nap.*



AC

*Always slept on the blue side, myself. The old guys will know exactly what I'm talking about.

[ucrt]

.

I found it to be less painful to e-mail an interested friend with an assortment of attachments (The Chart, What Parts Break..., So You Want to Buy an AR...) and let that information break their hearts, instead of the info coming out of my mouth.

It seems most people that buy kaa-kaa AR's, just want someone to agree and condone that they made a good decision. They're afraid to find out the truth about probably the most expensive gun they’ve ever bought.

I had an engineer friend asking me to give my opinion on his AR. I asked him to read the e-mail that I would send him. After he read the info, he complains to another friend “Frank sent me a bunch of stuff and he basically just told me my AR was crap.” But now, he understood what made one AR better than another.

After an AR conversation with a manager at Cabela’s, I sent him the “info”. Later, he told me that “info” was good and "we sell some pretty crummy AR’s …BUT we have some good ones too…don't we?" I agreed because they do...DD, Colt,...S&W.

So, if a guy is interested, giving the digital info you’ve accumulated is less personal and confrontational than blatant honest conversations.
But wanting to “brag” on what you know and talking condescending to someone for some ego-related glory boost to your pride, then yes, you are becoming a “snob”.

But maybe it’s just me…

.

[WS6]

My stepfather came to me for advise on buying a quality M4 type rifle the other month. I advised KAC, DD, LMT, Colt, Any number of proven brands. I advised against DPMS, Bushmaster, etc.

He now has several DPMS rifles.

Same situation with my lawyer, except his is already giving him serious reliability issues, but at least he bought it at a truly good deal of under $600 mid-panic, and knew going in that it might well require work, and if he gets tired of it, can dump it for profit.