Big Army says no more polymer mags

[sboza]

I frankly don't know what basis the two SME's on this board have for their decision. What I do know is based on personal experience from being a shooter, LEO, firearms instructor and competator. P mags have served me better overall than USGI mags have. (not saying USGI mags are junk I own a lot still) Others may disagree. If a SME on the forum tells me something that is contrary to my personal experience I am still going to go with my personal experience. Also I am sure you will find conflicting opinions among SME's as well.
Pat

To each their own, I have no problem with folks who use pmags . I just don't agree with your reasoning since proper maintenance makes the point moot in my opinion. I will add that most aluminium mags I have seen fail were the old, sometimes worn the hell out, black follower usgi's and low quality aluminium mags. I rarely see malfunctions with the green or tan follower usgi's, even the ones not well maintained.

And I'll let the SME's speak for themselves but the majority sf guys I know and have worked with don't go with the "the new thing" unless it is thoroughly tested (often by themselves) AND represents significant improvement in capability. The pmags don't meet this threshold for a lot of these dudes (I personally believe pmags have a couple of drawbacks rather than adding to capability). That said, of course every one has their own opinions and there are certainly SME's who prefer pmags.

I am wondering the context surrounding the failures you have observed and experienced from usgi mags. Are we talking about training mags? Used mags issued for firearms training? Green or tan follower usgi's? I assume most of these failures occurred in training or gaming since I think it's safe to assume that you don't shoot that much in an operational context.

If you maintain your magazines, I don't see why you are having so many issues with usgi mags. If you don't mind, would you explain some context surrounding the failures you have witnessed? I am honestly not being an ass, this is more for my education.

[GrumpyM4]

I've had newer (Okay) magazines fail on me.

Limited round count through the mags (ran through 4 or 5 times at the most) and in training, several simply dumped the base plate and the guts spewed all over the ground.

This was when I was doing a side by side comparison of Pmags to USGI under what I consider difficult conditions (active gravel pit).

I had bought 2 Pmags to test and the rest in my gear were the virtually new Okay mags I had bought during the ban years to be my "go to" mags. I had run the OK mags through three times to ensure that they worked properly then stored them until the ban passed.

Once Pmags were developed, I was leery due to my previous experiences with thermolds and orlites so I only bought two for testing.

Like I said, several USGI mags took a shit on me in less then half a day and the Pmags took the abuse and kept going.

After that I packed away all of my USGI mags into ammo cans for future "what-ifs" and have run nothing but Pmags for awhile now with zero issues or complaints. Including a fair amount of FA fire, training sessions, etc. Rain, snow, sleet, hail, hot weather, cold weather, FA, suppressed, training, dirt shooting (what little i do), being dropped in mud, kicked around, accidentally stepped on while in the gravel pit, etc. etc. etc.

My personal experience, not the name on the side, keeps me squarely in the Pmag camp for the time being.

[SOWT]

Side note: I was told by a NG friend that they are allowed to bring self acquired rifles overseas. And use them instead of issued M4s.
Can anyone confirm?

As others have said "NO!".

General Order #1 prohibits personal firearms in-theater (thank you Norman).

I find it interestng that the "New" brown followers essentially take Magpul's idea and institutionalize it.

I wonder if Magpul gets royalties?

[Iraqgunz]

I was recently in A'stan and I saw numerous U.S and some NATO personnel using PMAG's.

I personally know U.S military personnel who have carried PMAG's into combat. If it were up to me I would take PMAG's any day over aluminum. The pros and cons are already well known.

I find PMAG's much easier to field strip and maintain.

As for the personal weapons thing....I do in fact know a few guys that brought their own uppers into theater and used them. In one case it was against the advice of someone who had some misgivings about the reliability of said upper.

[scoutfsu99]

I'm curious how many people would listen to TACOM about their approved lube too?

We're lucky that we have options between reliable magazines instead of options between unreliable magazines.

[R0N]

The post earlier about the PMags failing at -60F, how many Taliban do you see running around the North pole. I would be concerned with the M-16/M-4 cycling at that temp with the break free oil anyway (maybe militec that is issued).

Although it does get cold out in RC East probably not TB, but there may be a concern with NORKs since there is a history of fighting them in extreme cold. I would be more concerned with the insect repellent and cold weather lube (That the LAW stuff mentioned) issues. Down in the green zone of the Helmand at least I experience quite a bit of bugs

[RogerinTPA]

Problem is, that there are so many Pmags in Theater and in the system, it's not even funny. I see more Pmags carried by Soldiers and Marines, where I'm based, as well as the FOBs I fly into, than USGI type mags (Which appear to be well worn, with a gold hue). As others have stated, to this day, there is still no mandated inspection in place for replacing Mags (and Extractors). If armorers are doing so, they are few and far between. IMHO, any unit deploying should have brand new mags issued and extractors replaced. Returning units to CONUS should have those mags inspected, then turned in to be used as training mags only.

I have a healthy dose of both Pmags (100+) and USGI type (100+ of D&H & NHMTG), but have been buying the NHMTG mags with Magpul followers since they are so cheap these days. Out of all the Pmags I've owned, I've had only 3 fail so far, but they were several years old and well used, so I felt I got my money's worth. As they fail from normal personal and class usage, they will be replaced with NHMTGs.

[zack991]

Makes me wonder the same of you, no offense.

Metal mags never gave me any shit. If they did I turned them into the armory.
The guy in the armory was into sport shooting so he never second guessed anyone requesting new mags.

I don't have much time with polymer mags but id be interested to see how they stood up on a chest rig with constant movement under fire drills and buddy carrys and such.

Uniformity assists in easy repair and replacement.

That and you'll always get that guy who thinks just because its polymer its good to go, Buying the cheapest shit from china and wondering why it doesn't work. Makes sense that they'd cut the BS.
Imagine if the Army allowed personally owned rifles? How many DPMS's would you see out their with sightmark optics and CCA stocks?

Side note: I was told by a NG friend that they are allowed to bring self acquired rifles overseas. And use them instead of issued M4s.
Can anyone confirm?

It depends on the state and the policy for the use of personally owned weapons. My state back home does not allow it, but I ran into a Wisconsin NG unit in Afghanistan that allowed their unit to use their personal AR 15 upper receivers instead of their issued Colt uppers. I spoke to my company First Sergeant and he said it is common that NG units are allowed to use their upper receivers or complete rifles. I asked why and he said he was not sure, but one reason could be they had more trigger time on a personal weapon then an issued rifle that is simple not fired very often if at all.

[R0N]

If OPCON to a combantant commander, his rules are in effect.

It doesn't matter what your state's policy is, when activated you are under Title X, and what your state says means absolutely nothing.

[zack991]

If OPCON to a combantant commander, his rules are in effect.

It doesn't matter what your state's policy is, when activated you are under Title X, and what your state says means absolutely nothing.

Yea, I am going by how it was explained to me, it was news to me that it was even allowed.