S&W M&P with Insight MRDS

[jaxman7]

Wow, I never thought I'd see this thread again! Three years later finds me unconvinced that mini red dots in general (exception: T1) are durable enough for duty use on a handgun. I'm on MRDS #5 and have since stopped mounting them to any of my pistols. Maybe I just have super bad luck, but the longest-lived of the MRDSs lasted ~1600 rounds of 9mm on my M&P. Now, it was mounted to the handgun via dovetail mount instead of being milled in; I'm not sure if that matters for durability purposes or not. Others can chime in on that aspect since I'm pretty much done with this experiment for now. Hopefully you have better luck than I did, but if you don't, rest assured that Insight will take care of you. Each of my 4 replacements was sent free from Insight after returning the broken optic.

That's the sort of feedback I was looking for. Albeit not what I was hoping for. Thanks man!

-Jax

[DocGKR]

We have recently completed a 3 year test of pistol slide mounted RDS. After experimenting with the Docter Optic, ITI mRDS, and Leupold DeltaPoint, in early 2010, six RMR02 8MOA sights were installed on the milled slides of four 9 mm Glocks and two M&P45’s. These six original RMR02 have in excess of 10,000 rounds fired through each one with no RDS failures. One battery was changed after 33 months of continuous use, one battery was changed after 36 months of use, and four batteries are still working at 39 months of use. These pistols have been carried daily, including use in rain, snow, sub-zero temperatures, and 100 degree heat.

In early 2011, twelve adjustable intensity RMR-A’s (RMR06 & RMR07) were were added to the testing on six 9 mm Glocks and six M&P's. An additional six RMR-A's were also mounted on the slides of various other pistol types, but were not part of the trial. Several RMR-A’s had trouble holding windage--typically moving 8-10 clicks clockwise over a few hundred rounds of shooting. Painting witness marks allowed a quick visual indicator to identify if this occurred. Trijicon rapidly fixed these problems. More seriously, when mounted on handgun slides, the adjustable RMR-A’s experienced frequent premature electronic failure. Unlike the original RMR02’s, NONE of the RMR-A’s lasted beyond 5000 rounds and quite a few failed under 2000 rounds. Trijicon immediately repaired each failed optic. Because of these nagging problems, at this time pistols with the slide mounted RMR-A’s have been relegated to training use only, not for duty or defensive carry. Trijicon is clearly aware of the issue, is in the process of identifying failure points, and is instituting engineering changes to increase robustness and durability of the RMR’s.

As a result of the repeated RMR-A electronic failures and the fortuitous availability of the Unity Tactical ATOM mount, several micro-Aimpoints (H1/T1) were added to the evaluation. The biggest problem with the micro-Aimpoint equipped pistols is finding duty retention holsters that will work. One micro-Aimpoint right side brightness dial was broken when it sustained a hard blow during training—the dot did not turn off, but the brightness could no longer be adjusted.

Bottom-Line:
-- For those with vision issues, an RDS equipped handgun can be the answer.
-- Likewise, for certain specific operational requirements and mission sets, a handgun mounted RDS is an excellent tool, particularly using NV and for long range engagements.
-‐ The ability to remain fully focused on the threat and not have to transition back to the front sight prior to shooting is a key advantage of a pistol with RDS for LE use.

If you don't need an RDS, you don't have to use one; on the other hand, those who do use them, find them quite helpful in many respects.

The preferred RDS for pistol slide use in this test was the original Trijicon 8 MOA RMR02. The micro‐Aimpoints also worked well, but the lack of duty holsters, and their slightly larger bulk limited their appeal. Most shooters wished the RMR-A’s had been more durable and reliable, as this optic had many desired features.

[GJM]

I have had four "classic" 8 Moa RMR-02 units. They have at various times been on a G17, M&P 9FS, M&P 45 and Sig 226. Near 20,000 rounds of use and not yet a zero issue or problem of any kind.

[DocGKR]

All of our durable and reliable RMR02's had four digit serial numbers; all the ones that we've seen with premature failures were 5 digit serial numbers.