My take on Glock's

[ra2bach]

personally, i have known several people who own Glocks, and have talked to people at the range who have them along with other pistols,and they all say that the Glock could potentially be an OK secondary weapon but they do not prefer them as a primary, mainly because of failures and misfires. also i have heard several stories from several people about Glocks and accidental firings when the weapon was lying on the table with no ones hand on the trigger after repeated firing while the gun was still hot. granted that is horrible gun safety to put a round in the chamber with no safety on.

personally i would go with the S&W 1911, the Springfield Armory, or the good 'ol Colt for the .45 caliber handguns. for the 9mm, i think that if you want to pay the price, Sig Sauer makes about the best out there.

hahahaha, thanks, that's the best laugh I've had this week!

guns going off all by themselves lying on the table.

not using the safety on their Glock.


hahahahahaha....

[Lagadelphia]

Gents

I see the old sand test I was part of years ago has stirred up a hornet's nest over on another forum - I tried to post this thread there but found out I was banned - not sure why that would be so I decided to post this here - in addition it answers several questions I get in nearly every class about Glocks- here goes;

1) IMO the Glock 19 and 17 are the best Glock's made - both are excellent pistols - I own, use, and recommend both

2) I do not recommend the G22, G23, or G21 - based on my experience these pistols have problems (breakage, won't function with rail mounted lights, etc.) and I feel there are better choices in 40 and 45

3) Glocks as a rule are not as accurate as many other service pistols - partly due to the enlarged chamber - this can be fixed with aftermarket barrels

4) I recommend 3 things for a Glock 19 or 17; good sights (Heinie, Novak, 10-8and Warren are my current favorites) , a buttplug to keep debris out of the trigger mech (cheap insurance), and my mag catch made by Tangodown. Optional but highly recommended is frame texturing by Dave Bowie (I like the finger grooves removed also)

5) They are incredibly forgiving in maintenance and lubrication - amazing

6) Incredibly simple to operate - 2 levers/buttons and 1 is optional

7) Always remember the golden rule with a Glock; keep your finger OFF the trigger until you are ready to shoot - if you don't adhere to this expect a loud noise at some point

Bottom line Glocks in 9mm are excellent pistols - they are not my first choice in other calibers however - the S&W M&P has been called a product improved Glock ; this may be true but the verdict is still out as the M&P is a relatively new handgun vs millions of Glock's in service (mostly in 9mm I might add) and S&W has a spotty record in terms of autoloading pistols - time will tell

hope this helps

Larry Vickers

www.vickerstactical.com

Another important aspect about Glocks: The simplicity of the design is such that the average Joe can repair/replace any part in a manner of minutes with no other tools than a punch.

[USG]

I've been a LE rangemaster fulltime for the past 9 years, and a FI for the past 17 years. I have been personally present for, conservatively, 1.25+ million rounds of .40 165 ammo, equivalent to the FBI load, going downrange through hundreds of Glock 22, 23 or 27s. Over that entire time period there have been a handful - two dozen or so - guns that have had a mechanical breakage - trigger spring, slide stop, recoil spring, etc - requiring service. Have never seen a broken extractor or ejector, or FP. A single cracked locking block. And certainly no "kabooms". When in spec, the guns run.

The ammo has all been factory ammo.

I have issued Glock pistols to LE officers. In every respect they have been identical to commercially-obtained models. They work perfectly fine, and it is rare that there are any malfunctions with the weapons, not traceable to a loose nut behind the grip.

I have competed with .40 Glocks in IPSC and IDPA for 5 years. My usual pistol was a COMMERCIAL Glock 35. I probably have 5000-7500 rounds of .40 165 grain loads though the gun. No parts breakages, replacements, or malfunctions of any type. And I was using COMMERCIAL 10-round magazines.

During the past 10 years I have also carried daily in LE, fired about 10,000 - 15,000 rounds through, a single Glock 22, without breakage. I have had perhaps a dozen malfunctions, nearly all with frangible ammunition, and none with the 165 Gold Dot load. Springs have been replaced every 5 years or so, along with the FP, FP safety, trigger bar and connector. These were PM replacements, not parts failures. Also add to that another 2000-3000 rounds each through a single G23 and a single Glock 27. Same functioning story.

I have shot, and seen shot, numerous Glock 22 and 23 pistols with M3, M3X, x200 and TLR-1 weapon lights mounted. I have not seen any malfunctions with the weapons while the lights were mounted.

My experience is that of Federale's. The Glock .40 guns are totally reliable, based on 8 years of experience and seeing hundreds of guns. Another local PD has issued the Glock 23 for over 10 years and their experience is identical - and they use full-bore 180 grain loads.

The "FBI 165 Gold Dot" load is used by other federal agencies as well, in fact many federal agencies that issue .40 guns. The FBI tests the ammo and awards a contract, and other federal agencies may buy off the contract. The velocity in a Glock 22 runs about 1030 fps.

And FYI, Winchester has announced that the FBI has awarded it the contract for .40 service ammo. The new round is a 180 grain bonded JHP.

http://www.policeone.com/police-prod...eases/1640496/

I personally prefer the 1911, or the M&P in a high-cap format. I haven't drank the Perfection Kool-Aid (the Glock is far from perfect - they do "upgrades", not "recalls"), and I don't visit GlockTalk unless forced to. Again, not my favorite personal weapon, but the amount of BS out there concerning the Glock is astounding, on both sides. I don't make a living selling 1911s, and I have no stakes in this other than my considerable observations and experience. The Glock .40 is reliable and accurate.

[nstg8r]

I think I own 26 pistols/revolvers. My go to is always a G19. Nice to see I have taste that meets Larry Vicker's credentials.

[Robb Jensen]

Here's the FBI .40 round data from my source there:

New Winchester load 180gr SXT Bonded averages 990fps from Glock 22s.

Their newer Speer 165gr Gold Dot averages 985fps from Glock 22s.

Their old Speer 165gr Gold Dot averages 1100fps from Glock 22s.

My source told me that the Winchester 180gr SXT Bonded that they've just changed to was the best pistol round that they've ever tested in ANY caliber. I asked my source if the pistols would 'wear' more quickly and he said that the G22 is really only good for 20K rounds, after that get a new gun.

[Renegade]

New Winchester load 180gr SXT Bonded averages 990fps from Glock 22s.

15+ years later, back where they started.

[El Cid]

I said I 'believe' it was Dean, yes, but I'm not certain. It might very well have been from 10-8.

What I find interesting in this is that there is a 'special' load out there developed by Speer, which is only available to you guys (and those attached to the contract). Is it because its massively ballistically superior? I doubt that. So, that being said, it was obviously developed to meet some specific requirement.

I will try to nail down the source, assuming anyone is interested.

It was posted at stoppingforums in late 2006 or early 2007. It was posted by someone who would know better than anyone and the reason for the "special" load was to reduce recoil for agents who had trouble with the recoil of the 40.

I was personally told that the downloaded 40 (GD 165gr) is ballistically identical in performance to the duty 9mm ammunition and I might as well get a 9mm since I get more ammo in the same size gun.

I also know agents who have kept a stash of the old 40 GD's before the downloading. They have the faster round and the cover of it being "issued" Bu ammo.

Personally, I try to worry more about getting good hits and I bring a long gun whenever possible.

I've been a LE rangemaster fulltime for the past 9 years, and a FI for the past 17 years. I have been personally present for, conservatively, 1.25+ million rounds of .40 165 ammo, equivalent to the FBI load, going downrange through hundreds of Glock 22, 23 or 27s. Over that entire time period there have been a handful - two dozen or so - guns that have had a mechanical breakage - trigger spring, slide stop, recoil spring, etc - requiring service. Have never seen a broken extractor or ejector, or FP. A single cracked locking block. And certainly no "kabooms". When in spec, the guns run.

The ammo has all been factory ammo.

I have issued Glock pistols to LE officers. In every respect they have been identical to commercially-obtained models. They work perfectly fine, and it is rare that there are any malfunctions with the weapons, not traceable to a loose nut behind the grip.

I have competed with .40 Glocks in IPSC and IDPA for 5 years. My usual pistol was a COMMERCIAL Glock 35. I probably have 5000-7500 rounds of .40 165 grain loads though the gun. No parts breakages, replacements, or malfunctions of any type. And I was using COMMERCIAL 10-round magazines.

During the past 10 years I have also carried daily in LE, fired about 10,000 - 15,000 rounds through, a single Glock 22, without breakage. I have had perhaps a dozen malfunctions, nearly all with frangible ammunition, and none with the 165 Gold Dot load. Springs have been replaced every 5 years or so, along with the FP, FP safety, trigger bar and connector. These were PM replacements, not parts failures. Also add to that another 2000-3000 rounds each through a single G23 and a single Glock 27. Same functioning story.

I have shot, and seen shot, numerous Glock 22 and 23 pistols with M3, M3X, x200 and TLR-1 weapon lights mounted. I have not seen any malfunctions with the weapons while the lights were mounted.

My experience is that of Federale's. The Glock .40 guns are totally reliable, based on 8 years of experience and seeing hundreds of guns. Another local PD has issued the Glock 23 for over 10 years and their experience is identical - and they use full-bore 180 grain loads.

The "FBI 165 Gold Dot" load is used by other federal agencies as well, in fact many federal agencies that issue .40 guns. The FBI tests the ammo and awards a contract, and other federal agencies may buy off the contract. The velocity in a Glock 22 runs about 1030 fps.

And FYI, Winchester has announced that the FBI has awarded it the contract for .40 service ammo. The new round is a 180 grain bonded JHP.

http://www.policeone.com/police-prod...eases/1640496/

I personally prefer the 1911, or the M&P in a high-cap format. I haven't drank the Perfection Kool-Aid (the Glock is far from perfect - they do "upgrades", not "recalls"), and I don't visit GlockTalk unless forced to. Again, not my favorite personal weapon, but the amount of BS out there concerning the Glock is astounding, on both sides. I don't make a living selling 1911s, and I have no stakes in this other than my considerable observations and experience. The Glock .40 is reliable and accurate.

Not doubting your experience, but the malfunctions are real. Someone else already posted the link to 10-8forums where one discussion can be found. I personally had a NIB G22 issued at the academy that was constantly choking (failures to feed) on FMJ and duty (GD 165gr) ammunition. They polished the feed ramp, gave me new mags, did a complete PM, and I personally swapped in a new Glock recoil spring/guide rod. None of those made it go away and the more I shot the gun, the worse it became. Oh, and I tried all variety of lube. Eventually I told them I'd throw it in the river if they sent it back and I got a new G22.

There is a saying, that a gun is always going to work best in the caliber for which it was originally designed. I believe this holds true for the Glock.

[John Fettes]

Personally, I try to worry more about getting good hits and I bring a long gun whenever possible.

The FBI's SA Urey Patrick said it best (for me) in Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness, page 6A:

"Experienced officers ....when potential violence is reasonable anticipated, their preparations are characterized by obtaining as many shoulder weapons as possible."

Found here:

http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf

There is a saying, that a gun is always going to work best in the caliber for which it was originally designed. I believe this holds true for the Glock.

Amen, Part II

My G19, 26, and 34 remain; the .45 ACP's, the .40 S&W, and a 357SIG are gone. A 357SIG with a .40 S&W barrel will be retained to consume the remaining ammo in those calibers.

Finally, I know Dean and he is very fond of his G21, or I guess it would have been gone a long time ago.

John

[John Fettes]

Another important aspect about Glocks: The simplicity of the design is such that the average Joe can repair/replace any part in a manner of minutes with no other tools than a punch.

Amen!

And, parts and support material are also available all over.

I have had a G19 a little over 19 years, and have carried it and/or a G26 more in the last five since I retired than when I was limited to GI issue on duty. I went to their armorer's class twice. I came to appreciate the Glock design a lot more after I took the roll pins out of my S&W MP45 for the first time! The MP has a much better feel for me, YMMV. However, I was blessed to have found out to be on the look-out for the MP part that looks like an old staple.

John