Here’s a link to a presentation that was given by Dr. Gary K. Roberts (who moderates this site’s terminal ballistics forum).
The presentation is a fairly comprehensive treatment of the various issues surrounding 5.56 performance (and in particular the M855 round) as well as other options.
I don’t think that anyone well versed in terminal ballistics would believe that 5.56 is ineffective against a human target as long as it achieve proper fragmentation…there are issues that arise, however, with certain 5.56 designs that fail to consistently achieve fragmentation under certain circumstances (especially with short barrels and/or small, slightly built people on the receiving end).
Additionally, 5.56 is a very poor caliber for penetrating cover and barriers including auto glass. If you’ve ever taken shots at a pile of wood with an AR-15, a 7.62x39 AK, and a 7.62 NATO rifle like an M14 or FAL, the difference in cover-penetrating ability is enormous.
If you have questions on this subject, of course, we’re lucky enough to have Dr. Roberts himself as a moderator on the site, and I’m sure he’d be happy to answer questions about his presentation, over on the M4Carbine.net terminal ballistics forum.
…are you serious? I hate to hijack a thread for your inane drivel (again), but what have the folks at LWRCi done to you so that you feel the need to say something bad about their company at every opportunity? What did Paul Leitner-Wise (who is no longer even with the company) do to you so that you feel the need to say something bad about their company at every opportunity? Feel free to call, e-mail, post, or PM your response.
I tell you what; I’ll stop posting the good things about them (that are actually factual BTW) like being approved for duty use by the DEA or being adopted by the PFPA if you’ll agree to stop libeling them at every opportunity.
I have genuine friends at that organization. What you’re implying and saying about them is false and hurtful and even worse serves no purpose other than inflaming their supporters and customers (which is what I assume you’re after) and showing your pettiness.
Oh yeah, to the OP; I’ve seen lots of booger eaters shot with M855 and M80. Not a single one reacted the same way. Some were one shot stops with M855 and some were multiple COM hits with M80 that didn’t immediately incapacitate. I am a known 6.8mm SPC lover, but I think it would be a wiser decision to sink money from all the open ended weapon, ammo, and accessory programs into SRM programs for every single combatant in the US Military. Hits count a lot more than bore diameter.
That being said I would take 6.8mm over 5.56mm any day of the week…
I’ve been hearing chatter that they’re developing ammo that takes the 6.8 out of the “USELESS” category. I don’t follow it very close, but a guru I know told me they’re coming up with hotter loads that help the 6.8’s shortcomings.
Although leitner is no longer with the company, they’re slimey tactics carry on. Leitner himself wasn’t even the original offender in the Shilling department.
Why do you defend such a bottom feeder company so aggressively? Have you received free product from them or something?
I’d have somewhat to disagree with this. as far as projectiles at handgun velocities go, I think the current belief is that “stopping power” is a myth, but at rifle velocities, it’s a different ball game.
then it’s just a matter of incorrect wording. “stopping ability” would be better. and guns do have varying degrees of stopping ability… a 22lr is much more likely to leave a man in a condition well enough to keep coming than a 50bmg. a COM hit with a 50bmg within effective range has pretty decent chance of keeping a man from taking a single controlled step forward… like, probably almost 100% chance.
while i agree the term is used i incorrectly, like a million other terms, i do believe stopping ability, or whatever you want to call it- the ability to stop a man from continuing to be a threat- is absolutely important when deciding on a weapon for a job. otherwise we’d all be running airsoft… lot cheaper to shoot.
and, as just about everyone here agrees- the 5.56 has plenty of stopping ability.
another attribute of the 5.56 and specifically from an AR, is muzzle control. this is why i went from .45s to 9mm, and why the AR is such a phenominal weapon- not only is the round plenty effective, but in the hands of someone with not all that much training, you can pretty much empty the magazine into someone. 30 rounds of light weight, damaging ammunition from a platform capable of very rapid sight aquisition and rapid RTZ.
I by no means am any expert, But I totally agree with shot placement.
I dont think anyone say that the .50BMG is lacking in “stopping ability” But if anyone here knows the story on Mickey Block he was shot 19 times by .50 in a friendly fire incident during Vietnam and lived to tell about it.
hehehehehe
