The St Louis thread kind of got off track, so I moved it to its own thread.
How would the US get places like Vine City in Atlanta, or South Dallas, or South Chicago, or Little Haiti/Hialeah near Miami back on track?
First a complete overhaul of our public education system from the ground up. It is rediculously outdated Prussian style nonsense. We are not pumping out factory workers anymore, yet that’s the system of education we cling to. We need critical thinkers.
Next is deregulating just about every industry to the point they can make money and prosper here again. I’m not talking chaos, I’m talking minimum regulatory and licensing requirements and tax incentives for start ups. We need fresh blood in every sector and we need to revitalize lost industry’s.
Next get rid of war on drugs. This is a huge factor in the perpetuation of poverty. Put some of that WOD money into rehabilitation programs and back to work programs. When in the hood you can make good dough slanging drugs and all it does is perpetuate violence, addiction and the cycle of poverty.
Next would be to have much stricter guidelines on assistance programs. They all need to be program based to get people back into the work force and earning for themselves again.
Next would be to attack the gang culture. Music, Hollywood, tv etc- all glorify it. That culture will never cease to exist, but we need to battle it more successfully.
Stop funding the rest of the worlds bullshit and focus our attention here at home. We have real problems in our own backyard that have been all but ignored for decades.
We need to stop enabling these folks to perpetuate the cycle. Whomever genuinely wants out and shows that with actions- give them what they need. Whomever doesn’t- cut them off quickly and let them rot from within.
There needs to be a culture shift, that’s the hardest part because it has to happen from within these communities by their own hands. Time and time again we’ve seen that assistance means nothing if these communities aren’t willing to change for themselves. We need to be honest about this and realize there are going to be those that don’t want to, cannot and will not change. Leave them to their own destruction and put energy into those that want to change.
There is no simple solution but the above would be a great way to start in my opinion.
Cut down on the welfare. Its work or starve.
Militia on the border. Remove illegals by force. Their jobs can go to Americans on welfare.
Its that simple.
Scale back the WOD and mandatory sentencing (sometimes you just can’t save people from themselves), at least for non-dealers. Set strict guidelines for assistance, even tapering it off as you make more $$$ instead of an arbitrary “Bam, you’re done” once income hits a certain level. There are jobs out there, no one wants to work them though.
As previously mentioned, the bulk of the effort would have to come from within those communities themselves. That will be the fly in the ointment of any “answer” to the question posed.
And by doing that we can free up the $150 Billion a year that the US spends supporting illegals and roll it into education or whatever.
In the case of Vine city, the bluff, and similar, it’s just a matter of earmarking millions in urban development, attracting companies to build big devlopments, etc. Oh wait, thy tried that over 40 years. Did not work.
There is a path to reclaim areas… Let the the relentless drive of Real Estate and development pressure act. But to work it essentially has two clear cut large enough areas to establish a stable community. And that displaces locals. It has worked in areas of Bankhead, Marietta Avenue, and similar in Atlanta. These were derelict wastelands 30 years ago.
Unfortunately it does not address your question.
Since I believe the root cause is tied into multiple very complex things, the fix has to come by changing those factors. Specifically: Gov tampering/enablement, accepted cultural behaviors, environment and finally, free will/willingness to try to change.
Until there is willingness to admit that these are factors are the issue, rather than excuse them, they will never be fixed.
I know and work with many very successful African-American individuals and families. They generally all have one thing in common. They moved away from culturally accepted norms for their demographic and played the game. Others would say they sold out to their culture. They still keep their traditions. But they work to align to the cultural norms of the group they want to participate in.
So I grew up in the south, and over the years lived and spent much time in very rural areas. I know that if I had refused to dress per business norms and insisted on keeping my cultural legacies, I probably would not have gotten my job, much less been successful.
Clothes, dialect, hygiene, these things influence people whether they should or not. A homeless person probably deserves help here. Can’t help that condition. Someone wearing extremely expensive Nike shoes, iphone, bling, nails, hair extensions, tattoos, it’s clearly not an affordability issue it’s a prioritization issue. Add to that expensive Wheels literally and figuratively.
Example: I find overalls very practical clothing, especially for working around my place. But there is a negative cultural image associated with those that heavily exist. It’s the poor, backwards, rural farmer. I still wear them, and sometimes intentionally do it for shock value and just to annoy narrow-minded people. But I would never wear them to a business event, or insist that it’s my cultural heritage.
The same would happen if I insisted on wearing military clothing, inappropriate dress is inappropriate. You will be judged.
Likewise dialect. Jeff Foxworthy says it best, he was an IBM engineer, but when he joined a conference call and they heard his accent his perceived IQ went down by half. I live that world, have largely scrubbed all evidence from my work speech. I still use colorful phrases that make some wince even though their perfectly valid. But they show a regional association that still has a cultural stereotype. And I’m not talking Andy Griffin Dukes of Hazzard stuff, show just something other than neutral Midwest or typical Northeast speech.
These are just examples of cultural differences and how they can impact success. The world would be a very boring place if we didn’t have these cultural differences. At the same time excusing or even making it politically incorrect to even acknowledge that this might be a problem, condemns those to remain trapped in that world.
Add in cultural things like baby daddy mindset, bling mindset, etc, and it’s worse. Yet many elevate people behaving outside cultural norms if they are an artist or a sports star. They become role models in some of these communities. And yet if you didn’t have the exceptional Talent OR luck that got those people there, emulating them is a recipe for failure.
I know many people who escaped. I grew up, worked around, and still live around others who did not. It’s pretty easy to tell the difference. They try. They play the game.
Some of these cultural norms were government inflicted directly or indirectly. The loss of the male Father Figure in some communities I believe is the largest negative impact. I asked a black friend that I worked with back with why did you stay in school, get good grades, and stay out of trouble. Despite all the temptations and potential prejudices of his world. He said: “because my dad would have kicked my ass if I didn’t”. Same as my answer. Pretty straightforward. Moms can make up some of that, and many do. But you really need two parents, are at a disadvantage without that.
This is politically toxic to say, much less try to fix. Try it, as soon as you head down this path you will be labeled as racist AND misogynist.
Even when someone like Ben Carson says very straightforward things about how he was able to escape, the very demographic that would benefit attacks him, and calls him Uncle Tom. He’s not the only one, there are many others.
My view is you’ll never be able to fix this situation while that attack behavior exist.
I love the people trying to break out. I went to school with them, had them as roommates, and now I frequent the places of business of poor folks chasing their dream and try to support their efforts. They don’t make excuses, they focus on their goal. I see Latin American families doing the same. Asian families have mastered it.
To me, excusing/defending behaviors is form of cultural slavery, probably started with the Great Society and the sixties. Up until that point the African-American Community was doing very well becoming a functioning part of mainstream Society. On an upward track. In spite of some very horrible conditions and prejudices. So why did it get worse when those largely went away, or at least were pushed underground.
The only good news is the signs of red pill thinking. People like diamond and silk, others. Meanwhile Mainstream media and political activists excuse the blatant lies of BLM and the grievance mongers.
I don’t expect this issue to be solved in my lifetime, it is a generational problem. Firefly pointed out how poisoning some of the cultural norms are. And environmental norms. Those have to be addressed or there will be no progress.
-Less top heavy brass, more police on the street
-Actual police training with long term optics
-Real calls only, total hiatus on revenue generation
-Reorganization of the Project system with 5 year plan to reach actual housing
-De-incentivizing over reproduction
-A reshifted tax burden (i.e. Section 8 becomes less like a hammock and more like a student loan)
-Total disbanding and re-organizing of HUD
-Re-structure of the school system
-“Clean streets mean clean streets” residents of public or assisted housing are required to keep all property maintained and to code.
-De-criminalization of drugs and treat it more as a health issue than a criminal one.
-“Move it or lose it” policy. If subject cannot make progress in one assisted housing area; they are relocated to another area with a fresh start. They are then given a year before they are re-evaluated and dropped
-complete de-centralization of the Project system
-De-incentivizing school sports programs. School is for school. Play sports on own time
-Mandatory GED/Job training for adult residents of government housing
-No redistricting for votes
Whomever still wants to be “that guy” can end up in jail, but a lot would seize the opportunities
Just my ideas
War on drugs. Gone.
Next case, your honor.
“I’ve just got like, this 5.56 okay? And it’s 55 grain ball. And everybody I’ve ever seen shot with it, it dicks them up.”
---Clint Smith
Thunder Ranch
I’m with you except the sports. Sports are the only shot a lot of these kids have at getting into higher ed.
“I’ve just got like, this 5.56 okay? And it’s 55 grain ball. And everybody I’ve ever seen shot with it, it dicks them up.”
---Clint Smith
Thunder Ranch
Rightsize growth and gentrification. Someone making $8/hour can’t afford their home/rent when the value increases 500% because the hipsters decide living in the hood is a good thing…
This is a full-city, top-to-bottom investment: gotta have jobs, better paying jobs (not backed by the mandatory minimum wage), affordable housing, and diversified infrastructure.
No more war on drugs. There is 80% of your problem gone.
The last 20% is culture. The prominent culture, especially of the under 35 age group is deplorable.
-Gang Culture needs to no longer be idolized.
-Drug culture needs to no longer be idolized.
-Teen boys need to not think getting a girl pregnant ‘makes you a man’ Being there for your wife and kid is what makes you a man
-74% of kids growing up with out fathers is a serious problem, see above.
Where do these ideas get propagated and spread? Entertainment. Music is a huge one, when you get some unintelligible uneducated ignorant moron incoherently mumble some shit about drugs and bitches and he gets idolized, you’re feeding that shit to your kids. When you listen to that and say its good, your kid hears it and learns its good, and there for infers the message is good.
While the war on drugs would be an immediate effect, changing culture takes generations. In 1965 75% of blacks had a nuclear family, 1983 we were down to 50%, today less than 30%. This took years and generation to happen, it will take years and generations to be reversed. Here is an interesting article from 1983 http://www.nytimes.com/1983/11/20/us/breakup-of-black-family-imperils-gains-of-decades.html?pagewanted=all&mcubz=0 Interesting because its about half way between desegregation/civil rights and today.
Lastly I’d cut welfare. No one should starve to death, no one needs to die of exposure. But the idea there should be ‘dignity’ to welfare is totally ****ed to me. There is no dignity to not being able to put a basic amount of food in your life. Welfare should be a last resort, not a life style choice. Keep feeding kids in school, the shit their parents do is not their fault, they shouldn’t go hungry because mom spent welfare on crack.
We need another cultural shift, or at least to stop it before it goes to far. This shift crosses all races and incomes. As Americans ‘living wage’ should not be considered enough to have a family, and a two bedrooms, and all that crap. A ‘living wage’ should mean you are not starving, it should mean you and a few other people can afford to share an apartment and gasp, even rooms in said apartment. When you work a McDonalds doing your absolute minimum you should not be able to afford a family. A family is a luxury and it is earned through hard work and good choices. If you are finically struggling having a child is a hugely irresponsible choice, and its a choice. Poor communities would be a lot richer with less mouths to feed.
Truer words have never been spoken!
Most of the problem is MOST of these people are content letting other people take care of them and complaining about how unfair they’re treated and how bad they have it. They don’t want to do anything about it. They want to be the victim. It’s generation after generation after generation.
They can kill each other every day as well as other people who they truly victimize and they’re fine with that…just don’t do anything to their sweet little angels with violent criminal records thicker then phone books…then they riot. They had their man in Obama for 8 years and they just got worst. Good luck fixing it!
I grew up in a city. I was part of the “White Flight Movement” out of the city…glad I’m gone. We left and they DETROYED pretty good neighborhoods we left them. Notice I’m a little numb to their $h!t.
NYH1.
Quit providing a free living.
Limit entitlements to 3 months.
Publicly promote the benefits of honest work.
Publicly promote good decision making.
Publicly promote the nuclear family.
Quit teaching everyone they are special.
Equal justice under the law
Shut down the borders.
Allow only socially and economically beneficial immigrants…
5 of these the government could actually do and save the tax payers while doing it. Hollywood and social media could fix the other 4 and continue to make money.When people see they HAVE to provide for themselves, they’ll do it or, well, die.
Agreed on every single item
I reject your premise.
White flight is being replaced with gentrification. When the exodus occurred in every major city, value and prices plummeted, and the whole inner city went to shit. Now it’s chic and hip to buy those places and turn them into lofts and coffee houses and studios and galleries. All of that is good and all except that is raises the values and thus taxes for everyone. While I enjoy going to the former 'hood to swill expensive microbrews as much as the next guy, I don’t know what the answer is.
Nope.
The majority of problem is too many people with too much time on their hands getting free handouts, getting paid to breed.
Everything you listed is a symptom of the problem, not the problem.
Define “back on track”. Do you want them to be yuppievilles, or clean and safe but modest working-class areas, or lush farm fields without much human presence, or what?
When you say “back on track” - were these areas once prosperous and healthy? Of the four I only know South Chicago at all, and it was never all that great from the first (white European) settlement onward. You may find that in some areas the skin color has changed but little else has. Like parts of Los Angeles?
Are you judging an area’s health by how well it matches the characteristics of prosperous suburbs with low crime? Or by how it matches the characteristics of other cities with the same racial-ethnic makeup? Maybe by industry present there and/or jobs held by the residents? Or by what?
Stop. All. Subsidies.
I guess I should have said I can only speak for my area. These neighborhoods aren’t being turned into lofts and coffee houses and studios and galleries. They’re being turned into gang infested, dangerous drive-by, walk-by, walk-up to shooting, stabbing, drug dealing and houses being torn down, not fixed when in disrepair. Won’t even mow the lawn. Sit on the porch all day long with a Caddy in the driveway, buffed out to every jagged line of rust with 22’s on it…won’t mow the lawn.
The worst part about my old neighborhood was during the school day when they bused in the kids that didn’t live there. Once they went home, most things went back to normal. Now it’s armed robbery after armed robbery after shooting after shooting after…well you get the point. Sure there was trouble every once in a while from within, that always happens. Nothing like now.
My parents still live there. Complain about it all the time. House has been paid off since the mid 90’s, property values go down every year, taxes go up. They own another house, nice ranch type on a pretty big lot out in the burbs that they rent out. I tell them all the time they’re crazy. They like their tenants, they’re good people. I’m sure they are. My families and my own well being is more important then good tenants. My dad has a nice garage and all the toys in it. He could build 100 garages…CRAZY!
NYH1.