Sorry guys, I really hate these threads but I’m getting wrapped around the axel on this one.
<sigh>So here it is:</sigh>
Which would you rather have, A SR15E3 or SCAR 16s.
Both are around the same price point.
Both have proprietary parts, typically not in the wild or hard to get.
KAC says the SR15 WILL go 20k rounds before parts replacement, Pat Rogers’s T&E SCAR went 15K before needing a new extractor, and realistically my firing schedule won’t be as harsh as the T&E SCAR was put through. Around 3-4k a year would be a good estimate.
Both are ready to go out of the box (except optic, light, misc. furniture).
Both have their own advantages as far as ergonomics go.
The SR has more rail space for me to use a AFG (like on my current AR), with the SCAR I would have to switch to something like a TD stubby or handstop. Not much of an issue to me.
The SR is said to have very tame recoil characteristics
The SCAR is said to be “different” compared to a standard AR, in a good way.
The SCAR “might” need to be modified to use PMAGS, not a big issue at all.
The SCAR has be proven to have less stoppages compared to a M4 but no comparison to the SR.
(disclaimer: i’m making an assumption) The SCAR would require less oil to keep running.
Is there anything else I should consider in each?
My wants/needs is for a rifle that’s lighter than my current Noveske. Both of which satisfy that need and then some. Other than those needs, I just want something new :D.
Since you brought it up I’ll just weigh in on this with the following …
The whole ACR/SCAR/416 saga really, IMO, underscores how good the AR platform can be and that a replacement for the M4 is not even really needed.
It would seem that only in the astro-statistical facets of failure percentages the AR shows any actual deficiency. Even then the criteria are severe in circumstance and probably do little to reflect any real world experience.
The AR even in just the last 2-3 years has seen vast improvement in parts, function, modularity, adaptability, cost effectiveness (when not politically skewed) and innovation.
The SR is an outstanding piece of machinery and in terms of you question I’d take it over the SCAR.
I took my ACR stash to the dealership with every intention of leaving with an ACR, but was resolved to give the SCAR full consideration before I committed to the sale. Following some up close and personal time with the SCAR, the ACR remained in Pole Position.
I had absolutely no interest in the SR-15E3, but picked one up to look at it largely because “it was there.” I’ll spare you the details of my highly-unexpected conversion, but I no longer have an ACR stash.
Actually another normal AR would suite me just fine. But when considering the third runner up for my next rifle (a BCM 14.5" mid), once everything is said and done, set up the way I want it, I’d be right in the ball park of the two in question price wise. So I’d rather opt for a little extra “specialness” when money is being spent anyways.
I already have a current working, maintained AR that can easily take up the slack in the event that the other goes down.
This of course is a very hard decision for me, because it seems like whenever I hold one, be it a SR or SCAR, my instinct immediately shifts from one to the other.
To add additional caveats, I do shoot a good amount of underpowered ammo of the Russian flavor. I know it’s not good, but when faced with the question of shoot a little or shoot a lot… I have to lean towards the later.
Knowing that the SR “possibly” could not cycle this ammo reliably (obviously it’s not going to be “duty” reliable, but enough to get through a training day). What actions could one take to improve this? In my limited technical understanding of the AR, common sense would say for days that I do shoot underpowered ammo, I could drop in a weaker buffer spring. Then when I get home, just swap it back out.
I used to own an SR-15 E3.
I had it for about a month and only put about 100 rounds through it.
It had two hiccups the first time I fired it using Colt magazines. One failure to strip a round from the mag and one mis-feed that jammed a round into the upper. I cleaned the rifle and fired another 60 or so rounds out of it and didn’t have any problems. I was not extremely concerned about this because I’ve heard of a “break-in” period on these rifles. But still the little voice in the back of my head was kind of like “hmm”.
I really liked the rifle, infact I loved it. So lightweight and great fit and finish.
Then I made the mistake of taking it to a “gunsmith” to have a Triple Tap installed on it.
He completely botched the installation (put it on upside down) and even put a nick in my barrel. The whole thing pissed me off so much that I sold the rifle. I was just going to use the money to buy a new one and start over “fresh”. I tend to be a little on the OCD side when it comes to my firearms. Anyways in my efforts to replace my old rifle I started thinking I should save up an extra $200-300 and just get the limited Taupe model for around $2200. Then out of the blue I did a search for a SCAR 16S on Gunbroker and found that amazingly they were also selling for $2200. I had no idea, I thought they were still in the $2500-2800 range (and still are locally at most of the shops around here). The SCAR was always coveted by me because its the “SOCOM rifle”. It was made for military application and thus in my book was pretty cool. So I used the money I made off my SR-15 and ordered a FDE SCAR and it should be here this week. I know its not quite as light as the SR-15 but I’m pretty excited about getting it.
Its a rifle I didn’t think I’d ever own and was something you bought if you REALLY had “a lot of money” to spend on a gun. The fact that its in-use by SOCOM operators and has a folding stock for me atleast make it a little cooler than the civilian SR-15. I know I’ll miss the trigger on the SR a lot when I have to go back to a crunchy .mil style trigger. I will probably miss its lightweight and low-recoil too but I can always sell the SCAR if I want and go back to an SR if its that big a deal. I also have a SpecterDR on the way too and I’m thinking the whole package should make for a pretty nice gun
A Tigerswan class is out of the question though. They primarily work out on the east coast, so when I consider airfare, lodging, class supplies, and tuition, It’s completely out of the question.
EAG has a class at the end of the month in MT which is more in my area, but I can’t take off work on such short notice.
MD has a class that I’m really eye balling because it’s in Portland (driving distance) and in October, when I can get some time off.
So yes, I get what your saying and I am looking at those options as well.
My opinion is that one can’t buy skill. My experience is that a lot of money is wasted when the majority of shooters can’t keep 10 rounds in the black at 25 yards.
SOCOM just decided that they could spend the SCAR-L money on other items and are going to continue to issue the M4.
So if I feel the need to “lecture” someone, I will do so. Much as you felt the need to lecture me, for lecturing, in your post.
And not that it matters, but my avatar is a picture taken at - wait for it - a carbine class.
Just a suggestion, though Byron seems to think I have some special power to control your thoughts. If that does turn out to be the case, could you make sure you trim the hedges by the street?
I agree with you 100% that skill can not be purchased. My point was that the OP did not seem to be making that assumption either: he was simply asking some innocent questions comparing two weapons.
nrose8989,
apologies for cluttering the thread. I’ll duck out now
The biggest benefit of SCAR to me has been a great discrete portability. The folding stock gets you to overall length of under 28 in. - a realm that was only accessible to NFA weapons, 5.56 AKs and XCRs; now there is ACR as well. The fact that you retain all 16 inches of bbl and don’t need to bother with NFA to me has huge advantage over SBRs. I am not interested in 5.56 AKs, XCR or ACR.
KAC is a nice rifle, but so is Noveske. I personally don’t see much incremental advantage of one over another. To me getting a KAC while already owning a high-end AR would be getting more of the same; getting SCAR would be something quite different - whether it is better or worse is a moot discussion.
I agree. Almost an apples/oranges comparison betwee an AR-15 and a SCAR but none-the-less I still wanted to chime in to help the OP make a decision. Sometimes you do need to compare apples with oranges (unless you have enough money to just buy both).
The SR15 is more ambi-capable, lighter, and can cycle with an AR15 bolt carrier group if necessary.
If the folding stock of the SCAR is a tangible benefit for you, then that makes it a fantastic choice, but if not it offers little the SR15 doesn’t.
For me, it came down to weight, me liking the URX2 handguard profile over the SCAR’s, and how the charging handle doesn’t reciprocate.
In your case, I’d definitely make a list of pro/cons for each and use that as a decision making tool.
