If you ask most folks the one thing they would change on an AK the typical answer is the sights. I find the XS Big Dots superior to the standard sights in every way. This class had a broad mixture of iron and electronic sights and I was the fastest first shot/hit on the line up close and as we moved back only the electronic sights pulled away from the pack of irons. In essence I feel (know) Big Dots are superior up close and are not any worse at distance.
In addition to daylight shooting at stationary targets they really shine (pun intended) at night with the big white dot and tritium and they keep up with the best electronics for moving targets and shooting on the move.
XS Sights are superior for killing people (legally, morally, ethically, etc). They are for hunting, not shooting paper. I optimize my guns for serious use and that is why they have XS Big Dots.
If you know any other “gunfighters” who need a set, I’ve got a set I’ll let go for 1/2 price. Once I put them on the clock, they failed my requirements for “serious use gear”.
Are you referring to the walkback drills done in the Vickers class? I think it would be rather difficult to judge speed on that drill since we weren’t on a timer. In other classes with Mr. Vickers I have seen him put the walkback on a timer, but in that particular class he did not use a par time or penalize for misses as he often does on walkbacks.
XS Sights are superior for killing people (legally, morally, ethically, etc). They are for hunting, not shooting paper. I optimize my guns for serious use and that is why they have XS Big Dots.
That seems, to me anyway, to be a rather odd assertion. If we can all agree that the range is a much lower stress environment than an actual gunfight and that performance will degrade, not improve, when fire starts going both ways…it would seem that if a particular technique/system/piece of gear doesn’t perform well in the low stress environment that it’s not terribly likely to do much better in the higher stress environment.
I got a set (Glock 9mm) to sell too if anyone needs some. Paul noted that no one has passed the CSAT standards with Big Dots. I’d be curious how a rifle with them would fare on the scrambler.
If a sek for the AK I’ll take em. Does it include the rear? I have just the front on my Krink with a u-notch cut out in the rear site and they are lightning quick and great for these older eyes.
They have to be the worst sights possible for a real gun fight. The are worse up close, and absolute crap at distance.
I had a set on a Glock in Iraq, and CONUS, I threw them away after a few months in Iraq, because they where severely cramping my shooting, and several folks from high-level elements pointed out the sights where crashing my shooting and in replacing them my speed and accuracy rose (which tends to be good - as speed is all well and good, but without hits your wasting ammo and a beacon of stupidity to the world).
I left the big dot on my SR-16 folding front for a little longer - as I figured in the unlikley event my Shot Dot went down, I could use the Big Dot on the rifle by using the square top as the aiming refernece, I then binned it as well after poor iron shooting drills.
My CONUS Glock, Va_Dinger kindly thru the BigDot’s away and replaced them with Heinie’s as he had been borrowing my wife’s G19 while we where both in Iraq.
If you like them fine, but everyone I know who is or has been a shooter in the top tier’s laughs them off as a joke, and given those elements tend to trial everything under the sun… Well most here can do math.
XS Big Dots are the biggest gimmick around for sighting systems. They are supposed to shine at “bad-breath distances” where sights largely become irrelevant anyway. I can nail an A-zone head shot on a USPSA target hardly using any sights, just index and go. However, that requires practice and real assesment.
At distance, when you need precise sights to hit hard to see targets, trying to put a globe on it justr plain sucks.
I have tried to zero plenty AK’s with Big Dots for people, is is absoultly the sh&%#st sight system to get any kind of accuracy with.
I wasn’t able to attend this AK class but I’ve taken it in the past and Larry didn’t always run us on the timer. Sometimes he did and sometimes he didn’t. It sounds like he didn’t in this case so I’m not sure how you can claim you were the fastest?
However, I’m willing to give you the benefit of the doubt here and believe you were. The next question would be how accurate were you? How long did you stay in the drill and did you win it?
A friend of mine who wrote the article for SWAT about building an AK had them the AK that he had built for that article.
I fired a bunch of rounds from the bench when he first got the gun about a year ago and all of the rounds were virtually touching at 50 yards. I am talking about 15 rounds of Lapua FMJ.
We tried shooting the same gun with the same ammo last weekend and the results were horrible in comparison. I realize that this is just shooting a gun from the bench, but from these limited tests it seems that the big dot is not as intuitive as normal sights and can be misalligned much easier.
I’d be interested in seeing how the XS illuminated post fares for the AK.
I’ve done Paul’s standards with a pistol with them, just not at CSAT.
I still don’t care for them, though.
ETA: I was able to hit an 8" plate at 50 yards 1 handed with these sights…but that’s not because the sights were any good. I can do that same task easier and faster with sights like Warren’s or Heinie’s.
The only distance where XS sights are “faster” are distances where there is no need for sights, anyway. At all of the other distances, they are inferior, IMO.
While it would be hard indeed to get worse than regular AK sights I won’t accept the trade-off of accuracy loss at range. Simply opening up the factory rear sight with a triangle file to 135-.145" or so will allow for faster target acquisition without the accuracy suffering too much.
How many inches does the XS front sight cover at 100m? I’m not asking because I’m talking shit–I’m asking because I don’t know. Regardless, for the AK, I’m a dyed in the wool AP Micro fan.
Somewhat off-topic, the XS sights always remind me of the Tabuk/Yugo flip-up night sights, at least the front sight anyway.
I definitely agree with John_Wayne777 that accuracy degrades considerably under stress. Now, if we’re talking about a full-on torso for a target–not too much of a problem. That said, it’s unlikely that you’ll have that as a target (sometimes you will, don’t get me wrong) so I prefer something that allows for accuracy and speed; hence the triangle file modification I like (well, and the RDS too )
While I can see how a 6 o’clock hold could help with accuracy when using XS sights, I refuse to completely change my ingrained muscle memory of center-hold to use a particular sighting system. YYMV.
I’ve taken a stab at XS sights one several different occasions. I initially put a set of Big Dot sights on a 1911 and ran them for several months. While they were on my gun; I saw a significant drop in the accuracy of my shooting. When the Big Dots failed to work out for me; I went to the smaller version, but still experienced a decrease in my accuracy. I then acquired a modified 10-8 rear sight from Dave Berryhill (notch was cut to .156" IIRC) and ran that with the XS sights. Still no dice. When the XS sights came off and traditional notch and post sights went back on, I saw an immediate increase in my accuracy. Two guys that I shoot with how pretty much the exact same experience; though they didnt try them as long as I did.
Roughly two years ago I decided to try a set on one of my AKs. I experienced the exact same issues as with the pistol sights. This time though; instead of pulling the sights off, I simply sold the gun. The current owner still hasnt warmed up to them and is looking at going to the traditional notch and post set up.
In my experience,fans of Big Dot sights typically have mediocre (if any) accuracy standards. For these guys; any hit on the target will do and the XS sights permit them to meet this goal. People who dont care for XS sights typically hold themselves to a higher standard and have found the sights to be lacking for them and their goal.
When it comes to the idea of a sighting system being good for “gunfighting”, but not “paper punching” that idea is generally bogus. It is nothing more than a excuse for poor performance of the square range. If you are unable to deliver a high level of accuracy during square range drills; what on Earth makes you think you’ll be able to do so when things are for real? Those of us that are serious about our training should know by now that we are HIGHLY unlikely to come close to our square range performance level when we are playing for keeps. If you think that you will perform better, you are simply lying to yourself.
The entire “not good for this; but good for that” is the same as martial artists that say their material (style, system, technique) is too deadly for sparring, but is fully functional on the street. Its nothing more than a cop-out.
I fail to see how lining up two points (well, three, if you consider the, ‘target’… whatever it may be) on a sight plane can possibly be as fast as lining up a single point–especially when moving. Red dots are far more forgiving of loose or unconventional cheek weld than any irons will ever be. We shouldn’t pretend that we’d all have perfect form in situations like that. This, and in low-light, is where a RDS far excels any iron sight.
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