If I used ‘probability’ of shooting someone in self defense as a guide to gun ownership, I probably wouldn’t own a gun.
True, but the basis of the question.
It’s almost the same argument/question of how many mags do you need, right?
My kid is always watching the body cam shootings. And it seems like the vast majority of them involve the cop shooting the shit out of the guy until he finally dies of old age. In other words… our wimp 9mm load that our wimp country has flocked to is wildly unimpressive. And HELL NO! I would not be ok with a 9mm for home D with all the clips in the world!
Have any credible information that e.g. .45 ACP or 10mm is any better, apart from barrier penetration? With the possible exception of those lightweight 357 SIG solids at near rifle speed that yoni has been pursuing they all punch a similar hole from what surgeons report, if I recall correctly.
For HD your shot will be very close. Unless you live in a huge mansion. Nothing puts out as much damage with one single hit than a 12 ga with buckshot. I have #1 buckshot in my 870. Thats 16 .30 cal pellets @ 1250 fps.
Yes, any ‘how many shots fired per encounter’ needs to be updated for the past five years. On top of the rounds per assailant, there is also the trend towards multiple attackers. It seems from car jackings to home invasions, people bring friends, with 3-5 gunmen more common. All handguns suck. Pretty much anything less than artillery is suspect, but if I got some bad guys playing short-bus Delta-team stacked up on my front door- I want a rifle. And you probably won’t know their numbers, gear, and intents before they start to try to take down your front door.
On top of this, please be cognizant that there are a lot of court cases out there on AWB and Mag limits where a main argument against us is that a revolver is ‘enough’ and a rifle is to ‘too much’.
So, not picking on the OP, but the question is almost impossible to answer- ore really doesn’t have an answer.
I feel comfortable with my set-up, or else it wouldn’t be my set up. And it starts a long way before I grab a gun. Where I live, what locks I have on my house, how many cameras I have around the house along with how they are configured, what gun I have with in reach during the night and during the day, how I have my gun room secured and laid out. Oh, and training.
So, to each their own, and may we never have the govt tell us what is ‘good enough’.
My only hesitation with a carbine inside the house is overpenetration and the length.
You fart around at night, you can’t see as well and ranges both open up and close rapidly in these scenarious.
Suddenly a jackwagon has your flash suppressor and is jerking it around, you better be pulling that trigger often and with evil intent. Tactics can and will solve most of that though.
I have an alarm. but I always wanted a “magic” light switch in my bedroom that turned on every light in the house at once. That would likely scare of 50% of them.
Alexa…
The over penetration argument has been put to rest.
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For normal SD situations a pistol you are competent with is not a poor choice. But a shoulder fired anything has higher hit probability with less training than pistol.
Mobs, riots, targeted home invasion (including mistaken address), or a break down of society are all reasons that more is better. I guess it depends on your world view of how likely those may happen to you.
I’ll be damned before I invite that bitch in the House.
There was a Youtube guy a few years ago that set up a test with 9mm, 00 buck, and 55 gr 5.56. He had something like 18 panels of sheetrock set up a couple inches apart and then fired several rounds from a pistol, shotgun, and carbine through them. You might be surprised to learn that they ALL penetrated something like 15 panels of sheetrock. Yes, all.
The overpenetration thing does start to make sense at greater distances, however. Where a 9mm or 12Ga might run out steam, the 5.56 will still be going strong.
FWIW, I run a slung suppressed SBR at home, and my OAL is less than a 16" AR. I may be “good” with a pistol, but I’m way faster and more accurate with the AR. And of all the options available to me, the rifle is the only one that will easily and routinely defeat soft body armor, AND will allow me to make head or pelvic hits with relative ease and speed. YMMV.
ETA: Here’s the video I was referencing. It looks like there are a bunch of newer ones too from other folks.
I would feel comfortable with a pistol (HK VP9, HK USP or my Beretta LLT) with a few mags. That said, I would much rather have my SBR or carbine, especially reading your part about a dozen mags…if out and about, a pistol…if in a damn fire fight; a rifle.
Yes I would !
Probably where most of us are at. And while we all prefer a carbine, the weapon we are mostly likely to actually use is our CCW. It has always astonished me that so many people devote the least amount of their time to their carry weapon. I’ve watched people who consider themselves “experts” who couldn’t shoot for shit when it came to their carry gun.
So while I understand all the factors involves, especially that specific 5.56 rounds SHOULD fragment on contact with certain things, I’ve seen enough first hand examples to suspect the FBI “materials tests” were done for the expressed purpose of justifying the move from SMG/PCCs to M4 platform rifles. Given some of the people they go up against, like organized cartels, they probably do need them but I don’t think it has very much to do with making the public safer.
At any rate, most of the bad guys who are willing to shoot at Fed boys are gonna be shooting 5.56 or bigger anyhow, might as well be able to keep up.
The only thing the various materials tests ever did for me was teach me to shoot through the corner when someone is covering behind two sheets of drywall. We’ve actually set this one up on the range a few times as a stage with the target 90% hidden and I don’t think I’ve ever seen a 2x4 frame and two sheets of drywall ever stop anything. At first everyone tries to take the partial head shot, then someone figures it out and zips rounds through the corner.
At the end of the day, a rifle is always going to be better than a pistol at killing bad guys, but that doesn’t mean a pistol won’t do the job. I feel very confident with my pistol, and wouldn’t hesitate to use it for HD, but my go-to home defense gun is a suppressed 8" 300 BLK SBR with 110gr black tips.
Now if it’s daytime, or i’m just checking something out casually with low probability of a threat, i usually just take a pistol for better concealment purposes.
I think Clint Smith said it best “Pistols put holes in people, Rifles put holes through people, but shotguns remove chunks of people.”
And he’s got a very valid point. But if there is something strange in the house my handgun is 4 feet away. If it’s probably nothing but I need to check I just do it with the handgun. If it’s strange enough that it really could be something me and the handgun head to the safe. If I’m going outside, I’m going in the safe first.