Just as in law enforcement or firefighting, I wouldn’t want anyone working next to me unless I knew they had met the same physical testing standards as me, and would be capable of dragging my ass out of harm’s way if I go down.
Lil Lebowski summed it up pretty much. When we get women who think they can piss fire and do a man’s job on SRT. We give them a small test. Drag a 200lb dummy 50yds. I can honestly say only 1 was able to accomplish the task in 14 years. Then the real testing began. We have had male deputies and officers try that can’t do things, why would we expect a woman too. Standards are here for a reason. To give the members of a unit a baseline of expectation of whom they serve with. If someone comes to your unit, you expect them to meet the minimum needs of said unit. If not they wouldn’t have graduated and be serving along side you.
Putting women in Combat Arms is like the Navy using dolphins as combatants! A fool’s folly.
Thank you for this.
AC
Even under ideal conditions there are still problems like female hygeine.
I posted a report a couple months ago in another thread but huge numbers of females end up pregnant, they go on sick call 3X the rate men do, ect.
While I think we can all recognize there are a small numbers of females who could do the job pretty well the vast majority can’t. There are a lot of mans who cannot. You’d be effectively lowering the bar, and infantry/combat arms would become less effective.
I think the female hygiene issue is overstated.
Change underwear, give yourself a baby wipe bath, bury tampons and pads if needed, and drive on.
In my unit we are broken into two parts; strategic and tactical. Woman are not currently allowed to deploy in tactical roles, only strategic. However, we have had FTX with females, and they tend to have their own tricks of the trade when it comes to hygiene.
The implementation and execution are what will determine success or failure for combat arms females. It may not make sense for females to be 11B or 18C, but what about 19K, 14T or 14J
I was a 19D in the first Gulf War. I spent 45 days on a screen line in the open desert waiting the war to start. No shower, no bathroom, no internet, no TV, no MWR, no gym. Running water consisted of your buddy pouring a 5 gallon water can on you from the top of the tank. Out of a combination of necessity and boredom, we dug a slit trench latrine in the bottom of a 6 foot deep fighting position - all with hand tools. It gave you some privacy, blocked the wind, kept sand from blowing up you ass, and was pretty hygienic. In most cases, privacy was nonexistent.
Back in the old days, 45 and 60 ‘field problems’ were the norm and soldiers learned how to actually live in the field like a wild animal. If someone went to the rear for some reason, you could smell the soap on them for over 15m away. In most cases, Combat Arms soldiers did not get to go to the rear. In REMF units, going in for a shower every few days was pretty much the norm - especially if that unit had females.
Again, in this current war, most females are doing a fine job. But they are leaving the wire on a convoy and return to the FOB by night fall. They are not spending days on end in ‘field conditions.’ I cannot stress enough how different life is for soldiers who have a permanent address at a FOB and those who are living at one of these remote COPs.
Seriously, check out the movie Restrepo to see what I am talking about.
What happens when the female gets captured everybody that we fight has no Idea what the Geneva convention is or even how to spell it . Is the American population ready to see a female dragged necked through the streets beheaded on TV? Or the other nasty shit that would happen?
Strap another 70 pounds on those two and road march them 20 miles in a day and I will be suprised if they make it.
Operating out of a mechanized vehicle in an urban area is a world different than operating on foot on an Afghan mountain range. Combat arms has to be able to do both.
but what about 19K
It takes a lot of upper body strength to be a Tanker. There are lots of heavy chores on a Tank when it comes to maintaining the beast. Tankers are part mechanics and an M-1 is no Yugo in the size department. It all ain’t just riding into battle and firing the main gun. There are a lot of other non-glory tasks that lead up to that point. Now, I was not a tanker but I was assigned to an ACR so I do know a bit about what they do from observing and discussing things with the Tankers. Universally, the most cussed thing I remember is the pain in the ass of fixing fubar tracks in a shitty environment. Lots of heavy tools, bogeys and links that required a lot of strength to work.
I cannot imagine an all-female tank crew doing the job and a mixed crew would be patently unfair to the male members.
I have met women who were fine servicemembers but they had their limitations that motivation simply could not overcome. As long as their job was within those limitations, they did about the same as the males. Physics is a bitch and ultimately, reality will win any argument you have with it. Better to be allies with it than beat your head against a wall. A lot of men are not cut out for Combat Arms assignments for that matter. Not everybody is born large enough to be an effective pack mule.
Therein lies the biggest problem.
America is not ready. More importantly, male soldiers aren’t ready.
1 female soldier screaming for dear life will motivate men to do very strange “chivalry” like things.
Biology, nature, sexual roles and culture will make it damn near impossible for men and women to fight together. More so than female capability.
Ive been on plenty of FTX’s with women, too.
Thats not the same as actually being in the field for months during combat conditions.
There is no way a female could stay clean for a few months without bathing.
With the ones who are physically capable of doing the job they still have to keep clean for months if needed, not end up pregnant, not let PMS affect their judgment, somehow males need to treat them the same (documented males will take risks to save females), ect. All in all its a stupid move because the vast majority of the time its going to cause problems that don’t currently exist. I don’t think the small percentage of women who could do without causing any extra issues is worth allowing the majority who will have issues.
I was in a mixed gender unit so Im fully aware of what problems female bring to the table. In my unit around 3/4ths of the females ended up pregnant from the day we got deployment orders to the day we came back. Its just not worth having females in MOS’s like combat arms our mine (signal) where they can’t lift equipment bags, ect. In my entire time in I knew of maybe 2-3 chicks who could pass a PT test to an 18-21 year old male minimum standard. We did have a couple chicks who kicked ass and didn’t play the typical female but they are rare, and even then they are not as physically capable as the average male.
I also was attached to combat arms units during large exercises and while deployed. Our signal company had six man teams that were then attached to the combat arms units. Based on my experience I do not think there is any way allowing females in combat arms is going to work out. Its going to lessen the effectiveness of these units, cause disruptions, and there are VERY FEW females who can do without causing an issue. Even then they are going to be on the bottom end of the totem pole when it comes to being of benefit to their units.
Prior to moving into Iraq on my 2nd deployment by brigade was held in Kuwait for a few moths so we were out at the ranges, MPRI classes weekly, and out doing mass field exercises constantly. We’d move around the desert for 2-3 weeks at a time. Just based on that all our “out teams” (six men) none of them had males. All the females were kept around the company area. We were shitting in cat holes out in the open in front of other people, ect. I also took part in our scout unit’s Spur Ride which was 50 miles in 50hrs. I was attached to the scouts for a bit, and we were PT’ing for 1.5hrs everyday, and an 6-8 mile run was normal at a pace that would be faster than maxing the female PT test.
While in Kuwait the MP’s unit was like half females, and it was well known they were all whores and fucking like crazy. All in all Ive come to the conclusion females in the military cause more problems than having an all male force. The only thing they should be doing is the ‘medical corps’ like we had in WW2, and they were kept pretty much separate from the line units unless someone ended up in the hospital. They can also be kept stateside or OCONUS fixed bases doing paperwork or supply.
In Desert Storm, IIRC, Task Force Ripper moved over 50 miles in 2 days on foot…how many females could manage that with a combat load?
In Scout/Sniper school, I stepped off on our final exercise with a loadout that weighed more than I did (about 130# not counting my M40). How many females could do that?
I recall having to fireman carry my 235 pound roommate across LZ Bluebird in Camp Lejeune when I weighed about 135 pounds. How many females could do that?
I would love to see one them bear crawl 700 yards down a rifle range…
Jay
Speaking of women in combat, anyone know what gun this is?
I thought the Swedes used an FNC variant, while the gun in the above pics look like an ACR/SCAR/ARX160 competitor.
look here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ak_5
read down to the Bofors AK5C stuff and see if that is the same
That chick on the right is gorgeous.
welcome to Sweden.
I am sure they have ugly women there. But when I was in Stockholm a few days 20 years ago, I did not see any (at least that were native Swedes…)
Of course, Denmark was even better (and more distracting – it was raining and I was stuck in the main train station and all these young females walked by without the help of upper body women’s underthings…)
I would encourage all fathers (and any young man that wishes to marry and become a father) to read “What He Must Be…if he wants to marry my daughter” by Dr. Voddie Baucham. While Dr. Baucham does not address the “warrior” spirit, he does talk extensively about our roles as fathers in raising our daughters. By default, it also addresses our raising our sons how to be godly husbands and fathers.
During the 03 invasion of Iraq I was a SAW gunner. Between my SAW, 900 rounds of ammo, my vest, water and other extra shit I had to carry my load was just under 100 lbs. Being 6’1" and 200 lbs this wasnt that hard for me. A 5’5" 130 lb chick is not going to be able to carry that kind of weight around.
On top of that I was also a Javelin gunner. Every night I had to bring the CLU and at least one missile up to wherever our OP was where we were sleeping.
We did ride around in Brads most of the time but whenever we got to a city we dismounted and foot patrolled through them. There were plenty of days where we were walking through towns, clearing houses and bunkers, for several hours.
On the outskirts of Baghdad we took arty fire and that whole objective turned into one big cluster fuck as our whole company became seperated. That was a very long exhausting day of small skirmishes, long walks and even a good mile run with all my equipment on.
On top of all the exhausting work, we did not bathe for over two months during that time. We ran out of much of our hygeine stuff from useage and several rucksacks being destroyed from enemy fire or being crushed between the Brad and a building/tree.
Im not trying to say a woman cant fight. I have served with a few true female warriors who I wouldnt mind having in a fighting position next to me when the mongol horde comes over the hill. But there is a lot more to being an infantryman than just pulling triggers.
I was in a mixed unit and in 11 years I have met 2 woman who could hack it, they were not whores or winers but like all of you have said its a very small %.
In my MOS they where a force multiplier but you had to choose very carefully which one you requested as most of you said allot got pregnant and where sent home.
I did a week long exchange with the Swedish Army in 1998 while in Bosnia. Interesting to say the least. From my observations, there didn’t appear to be much emphasis on combat/warrior ethos, national pride or a sense of military bearing. I was shocked to see enlisted address their Captain by his first name, etc. I was happy to return to my unit and back to disipline. 
The Swedes have done a very good job of remaining “neutral” in major conflicts (WW2, refusing to join NATO), and only recently deploying forces outside of UN peacekeeping missions (OIF).
It is a FNC variant, called the AK5.