ADCO WOA Mk12 mod1 vs Larue Stealth 18" or 20"? How is the quality with the WOA barrel? I know Larue is pretty high up there and I keep hearing the WOA makes a pretty good barrel too. I would hope for this to be a .5 moa gun, on good days:D I have combat experience with the real mod1 and love it. I keep hearing to buy the Larue just because of the 1:8 twist because it better stabilizes 262/77smk. I would also like to throw in the centurion arms mk12 mod1. I keep hearing such good things about it and Monty that I oughta throw it in. Would it be worth the $140 price over the Stealth and WOA for basically(from what I understand) only a different barrel and rail?
The barrel is everything when it comes to accuracy and Monty claims you can not buy a better barrel than the Centurion Arms Mk12 version. His barrel is exactly like the one the military uses and is made on the same machines, by the same man that turns them for the special ops community. A lot of money and research went into finding just the right balance, contour, length, twist, etc. It is what makes the MK12. I thought the 262/77smk was specifically designed for 1:7 twist barrels?
Centurion MK12 barrel description - http://centurionarms.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage_images.tpl&product_id=46&category_id=17&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=47
Video MK12 Chapter 1 - http://centurionarms.com/
Scroll down to “Specifications” and “Barrel” - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy_Mark_12_Mod_X_Special_Purpose_Rifle
Black Hills’ Mk 262 Mod 1 - http://www.gunsandammo.com/content/black-hills-mk-262-mod-1
I have Monty’s MK12 Mod1 version, but I am still waiting on my scope so can’t give you any real feedback.
The slower twist is a trick used by benchrest shooters normally BR shooter will pick a barrel with just enough twist to stabilize the heaviest bullet they will use.
The Idea is the slower twist will slightly less friction on the bullet going down the bore.
1/8 twist will stabilize a 77smk.
Larue uses Lothar Walther barrels.
Woa uses wilson barrel blanks.
Centurion has explained uses barrels from the same manufacture as the government.
Between the 3 you should decide based on which company offers the upper/barrel you want to fit what you want to do with the gun.
If I were going to get a Mk12 upper Centurion would be the obvious choice as LaRue does not make one.
If you want a recce style gun LaRue would be a better option IMO.
Im on my 2nd stealth upper now, and they shoot great as well as being super reliable. Almost 10k rounds now between the two (most on the 1st one) and have no had any issues at all.
For the MK12 builds, I’d also give a hard look at High Caliber Sales. I was just in the market for one of these builds and it came down to Centurion and HCS. Again, HCS also uses the same contract barrel, contured/chambered by the guy that does it for Crane. Both of these companies use some of the best credentialed builders in the industry, and assemble with mil-spec components. Both companies have glowing endorsments from well respected entities in the industry. I went with HCS based purely on their ability to deliver the upper first. They also pinned the gas block for me free of charge. The HCS upper was a little more expensive, but came with a BCG and PRI Gas Buster. I was also able to purchase a quantity of BH MK262 ammunition to go with it. It just shipped out today so I’ll expect to see it next week some time. If interested, I’ll post up some detailed pics.
I have one of Monty’s Mk12s uppers and one of his DMRs both using the Mk12 barrel. They are the most accurate 5.56 rifles that I own. I also have a Noveske SPR that I use as my only comparison point to these particular rifles. Having many other flavors of AR, barrel length and manufacturer–I can say Monty’s Mk12 based uppers should be the most accurate AR that you own. Easily sub-MOA, how much sub-MOA is more a function of your capability and ammo choice than the upper. The Mk12 he built for me is easily my favorite rifle. Very smooth recoil, extremely accurate, very well assembled upper.
When I’m home again in June I plan on taking a lot more pictures of this setup and it’s safe-buddies. I have serveral posted in the AR picture thread as well as some of the other centurion threads.
Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that Army contract SPR barrels were turned from Douglas blanks? Am I wrong?
WOA barrels are Wilson blanks. Wilson and Douglas barrels are on par. Lothar barrels are probably in the same ballpark. They are all button rifled? Quality barrel blanks are one thing, but barrel finishing is as important. A good barrel is a good barrel because it is a good barrel, not because the Army uses them. All this talk about “the barrel the Army uses” is puffery.
Out of those three uppers you suggested, they are all quality. Centurion’s (price not listed) upper looks to be true to the SPR tradition down to the details. If you want a “true” Mk12 mod 1 it seems like a good choice based upon people’s reviews here. All of those uppers will probably shoot sub-moa with the right ammo. None of those barrels are benchrest quality barrels, but a SPR isn’t a bench rest gun, it is an operator’s gun.
Keep in mind that alot of what is built into the price of an SPR barrel is the barrel finishing… it is a wierd contour, and the finish coat isn’t free. The blank is relatively inexpensive. Even so, for the price of that barrel at over $400 you can get a cut rifled Krieger barrel which will probably holds its accuracy far longer and have a better accuracy potential.
Dom
Having shot a couple of ARs. ;).
My choice would be the Centurion or WOA over a LaRue. None are junk for that matter.
+1 That would be the way I would pick one.
I think its the best option of the ones listed, and you are already familiar with what it will do.
Actually the 1:7’s would better stabilize the 77gr SMKs. In my brief experience with 1:8 twist barrels, they seem to favor 69gr over the 75gr and 77grs. Lets just say I won’t be buying 1:8 barrels anymore.
I prefer 1x8 over 1x7 for 75-77gr ammo.
I find 1x8 to stabilize 77gr (real Mk262 Mod 1 and Black Hill red box) just as good at 1x7 and to provide higher velocities everytime I’ve chron’d. 1x7 was needed back in the day to stabilze M856 64gr tracer in M249s. The 64gr tracer projectile (orange tip) is actually longer than a 77gr OTM (Sierra MatchKing).
I won’t be shooting tracer out of my stainless AR precision barrels so I use 1x8 when it’s available to me. I also don’t find any real repeatable accuracy differences between 1x7 and 1x8, I typically only see differences in velocity usually 30-50fps faster with 1x8.
You missed the point. The point is that if the OP wants a MK12, the barrel is what makes a MK12 a real MK12. The military spent thousands of dollars to design a specific barrel profile that met certain requirements. For example, two of the requirements may have been that the barrel profile had to accept the Ops Inc suppressor and another may have been that the barrel had to be as light weight as possible while still being stiff enough to provide a certain level of accuracy. Any other barrel and it’s not a MK12.
Among other things, one of the identifying characteristics of an M4 carbine is the grenade launcher notch in the barrel. It’s not an M4 carbine without the M4 barrel profile, imo.
I don’t care if its not the hand turned barrel turned by the man himself. After thinking for a while about what would be practical, reviewing your much appreciated comments, I have decided to take Sticks suggestions for four reasons.
- Do I really need a top of the line barrel capable of MOA or better for shooting at paper and a few unfortunate hogs? No
- Do I care what rail will be used, or how rugged the rail will be for my practical application of shooting paper? No
- Do I think the Mk12mod1 looks absolutely gorgeous? Hell yes!
- Are the ops inc goodies required? No, but maybe they will encourage me to eventually get a ops inc 12th.
Thank you for your comments guys. I have been so fed up with getting the most accurate rifle that I failed to realize if it was practical to have such a rifle for nothing other than shooting paper.