Maybe the purchase of Lehigh Defense is old news for some here, but there’s been onging interest in those bullets lately. More I see more interested I get as they don’t appear to be another super wonder bullet that fails on testing. So far, the Lehigh design continues to look legit. What we really need is some formal testing, but all the informal testing, feedback from people who have shot hogs with them, etc looks like a legit barrier blind monolithic that offers close to best of both worlds of FMJ and JHP without the drawbacks. There 90g Extreme Defend or tested her via Wilson:
I don’t particularly care for Lehigh bullets, might have a use in BUGs like .380 or short barrel .38 special guns that don’t carry enough energy to both expand and penetrate. But no, these arent a replacement for a good JHP. A good JHP will still crush more tissue than a bullet that doesnt expand. Its doing damage similar to a semi-wadcutter, better than a FMJ, worse than a good JHP. Kind of a niche bullet.
If your pistol and ammo combo is too weak to achieve good expansion and adequate penetration from a JHP, then these would be a good option.
The JHP if it performs as intended may create a greater wounding effect, but that’s if it performs. Otherwise, it acts as FMJ. Did you watch the vid? The Lehigh is effectively barrier blind and still performed to FBI protocol depth. I’d like to see some formal testing, but various who who shoot hogs with them have reported considerable wounding, likely due to cavitation effects perhaps. Regardless, the Lehigh may have a reduced crushing mechanism, but will be more consistant under more conditions, and perhaps wounding above an FMJ but less than a JHP if the JHP actually performs as intended.
I would not write the Lehigh off, but we need full formal testing there.
Thats why I said a GOOD JHP, the ones that won’t plug up or fail to expand. I generally don’t rely on temporary stretch cavity in handguns as a wounding mechanism. Also what caliber is this hunter shooting the hogs with? If he is using a lever action calibers you are talking rifle caliber wounding ballistics, not handgun ballistics.
None are essentially barrier blind however and there’s always a trade off in their designs and reliability. Not formal testing, but a well respected JHP vs Lehigh and the perm cavities look very similar. Not the pencil thin wound track of say an FMJ which would have gone through both blocks I’d expect:
Shooting some actual meat is interesting vs HST JHP with subjective caveats of such things:
Pretty sure that clear gel is basically useless except as a gimmick for YouTube testing.
Some of the other Wilson Combat videos that will hype up the idea of energy dumping and all that certainly also sours me on any belief that they actually know what they’re talking about when it comes to terminal ballistics (see their video about flutes vs. no flutes).
I don’t care if they use the term as it applies to the bullet stopping where it does in the gel, but cringe when applied to wounding mechanisms. Not as bad as “knock down power” at least.
I am a huge fan of the very light 65 or 68 grain Leighi Defense rounds from Underwood.
Out of a 6 inch 9mm we are kissing close to 2000FPS out of the 357 sig it is 2300 fps.
I gave the 9mm to friends that were going hog hunting and after that hunt they all now carry Leighi from
Underwood in their 9mm pistols and PCC.
I had corresponded with the late Jim Cirillo of NYPD stakeout fame. He told me that starting at about 1900fps things started to really change in a big way in bullet performance on people.
You can make your own choices but for me I have made my choice.
Theres really no magic velocity where “stuff starts to happen”. You can achieve 2000 fps easy out of 5.7 handguns and those do pretty poorly in actual shootings. Even out of the P90 you are getting 2200 fps out of the same ammo, still has pretty poor performance in shootings.
If you got some real world data on the Lehigh stuff Id be very interested in seeing it, unfortunately no one is adopting it as a duty round so OIS data is hard to come by.
The Lehigh projectile is “barrier blind”, for sure. Lets define that. Barrier blind can be said to mean a bullet that performs close to the same, whether initially striking bare flesh, or doing so after passing through any of several other thin mediums. So, since its not designed to do anything that a FMJ doesn’t do, there is no opportunity to fail to do that FMJ thing after striking sheetrock or whatever.
So, lets apply that to a shitty JHP. XTP bullets are notorious for failing to expand at moderate velocities. Lets say we launch a sample of 20 of them through bare gel and through clothing-covered gel as a barrier. Or sheetrock and then gel. Doesn’t matter…use your imaginations. I’ll make up some numbers: 900fps impact velocity, 147gr 9mm. 10 recovered bullets fail to expand and penetrate over 24” of gel. 10 expand to .400”-.500” and penetrated 16”-18”. The 10 that did not expand did exactly what the Lehigh bullets do. The other 10 did JHP things. How exactly is the Lehigh performing better when it fails to expand 20 out of 20 times? Wouldn’t a hardcast and coated bullet be cheaper?
Funny you mention the Hornady XTP bullets, where the only place they really shine is out of a BUG or any other micro barrel pistols precisely because they suck so much at expanding.
Just like the eXtreme Penetrators lol.
I was reporting what was told to me, and when you look at the calibers they were shooting in the NYPD stakeout unit, it was 38special, 30 caliber M1 carbine, 1911, you will not see the 5.7 because it wasn’t invented yet. I agree the 5.7 is a terrible round, we tried it and it sucked.
But a 9mm round going 2000 to 2300fps, it is going to do things a regular 9mm hollowpoint can’t.
Would you have any qualms carrying this? Since its also going over 1900 fps
I would NEVER carry this ammo. Since it is a hollowpoint at those speeds it will over expand and under penetrate.
That’s why:
Doing a decent job of following FBI protocols vs Speer GD 124g:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL2z8OS-9xk
Through armor:
Will, all the flutes do is take advantage of the inelasticity of ballistic gelatin. Stretch cavities mean jack shit but marketing at pistol speeds. My internets won’t let me watch the video to be sure thats what we’re talking about.
Vicious, I’ve seen a small deer-like animal get shot with that 50gr HP stuff. I can confirm that it expands very fast and probably would not penetrate 12” in jello.
Yoni’s onto something altogether more interesting with a light, fast projectile that won’t break apart.
Real world results on animals report even better on meat then the effects on jello. Yoni also coms with people using it on pigs, say same. I have no personal experience there so that’s second and third hand info. I did post on vid shooting meat here, and subjectively, bigger perm cavity/hole to a JHP used.
Worst case, you get a barrier blind bullet that stops at FBI protocol distances, better terminal ballistics than FMJ, not as good as good JHP, if the JHP performs as intended. That’s the trade off some may view worth it, some may not, but I think that’s a fair conclusion.
Best case, it’s as advertised, a barrier blind solid projectile that also out performs JHP in terminal ballistics even when the JHP performs as intended. For that conclusion, we need formal testing.
Of Interest: Getting the Lehigh up to 2k+ FPS and potentially seeing rifle-like effects in terminal ballistics from a pistol.
Handgun rounds are not good for penetrating barriers, then performing as intended. I would like to see Wilson Combat test the LeHigh Defense cartridge while using denim, jacket leather and canvas duck material.
Eventually, we will see a number of shootings where LeHigh Defense ammunition was used and have the ability to collect real data.