Why they don’t like CZs ?

Yes, why they don’t like CZ pistols? (CZ 75/85 models) I don’t speak about civilian shooter here, but about professionals like police officers, SWAT, Special Forces and those whose life depends on firearms. They mostly prefer SIGs even Berettas and even 1911s, some of them have never heard about CZ pistols. Glocks and HKs are another story because they represent more “modern” designs that everyone is using these days.
Why no love for the CZ-75B/85B? It is the most ergonomic pistol I’ve ever shot. It has a steel frame and doesn’t weigh much more than the P226 or M9. It even has a 16 round capacity. Can be carried cocked and locked and there is a decocker version of it.

Is the reason for this its poor quality, low durability and reliability, or because it is former “eastern block” weapon? :confused:

Personally, I’ve had mixed results on CZs. I’ve owned a 75b, P-01, SP-01, and a 97b(.45acp). The only one that was on par with my Sigs was the 75b which was accurate and reliable. However, I broke a trigger return spring after only 8k rounds. The P-01 had a nasty trigger slap, even after going back to CZ twice. I also replaced three trigger return springs and a slide stop on it before reaching 10k rounds. The SP-01 required a trigger job, even after 2k rounds couldn’t smooth it out. The 97b was an overall nightmare. Out of the box, it would not feed hollow points at all. The cartridges would nose dive into the feed ramp, and the magazine catch was so weak that it would pop the magazine out of the grip. After a professional ramp job on the 97b, I got it to feed hollow points…but the magazine catch failure continued to persist. After getting a gun smith to wield additional metal onto the catch to make it more robust, the barrel bushing cracked before 1k rounds. After over 10yrs on the market, CZ has not made any changes to these 97b problems.

The quality of CZ has gone downhills since the fall of the iron curtain and I don’t trust them as service pistols. Aparrently the quality of their cast steel frames have had some cracking problems too due to the poor quality steel. I’m sure it is improving over time, but reviews on CZs are mixed. Yes, they feel great in the hand and they point well…but the two MOST important criteria in a police and/or military sidearm is reliability and durability. There have been a few US police agencies that have tested them such as Phili PD, but they have not done as well as the commonly found pistols you see in the hands of police. H&Ks, Glocks, Sigs…etc.

CZ’s tend to be maintenance intensive, similar to 1911’s. Durability of certain parts is questionable. I know several people who use them for competition and they are continually replacing parts. They stick with them because they like the ergo’s and they’re “not a 1911”.

My own personal experience with CZ’s is mixed, I had a 75B SA(single action only) that ran perfectly for 7,103 rds before it was sold. I also had a 75B, that broke something every 800-1,000 rds and I sold it after 6,074 rds. I will say it ran fine for the last 2K with no problems. I ended up parting with them due to the fact they didn’t really fit into the type of competition I was shooting, and I didn’t feel like buying parts anymore.

I really want to like CZ’s, they have good ergo’s, but in the end they’re not worth the time/money involved IMO.

huh… that’s a bummer about the durability issues…
they sure have a nice look and feel.

I realize that mine is only 1 pistol out of thousands. I have a '91 CZ 75 that has about 60,000 rounds through it without any issues, no broken parts. Just a worn sear I had replaced 4 years ago. It is a competition only gun now. Great gun, wish every gun I bought worked as well.

I’ve had no problems with my PCR with the 2k rounds i’ve put through it since i bought it last year.

what parts were you breaking on them?

I replaced the following on my 75B:

(2) Slide stops
(1) Trigger return spring
(1) Extractor

I had a 97b and an issue with the magazine catch crept up after about 200 rounds. It’s very frustrating shooting a gun and the magazine keeps popping out. I sent the gun back to CZ and did receive great customer service. They beefed up the catch but after as little as 50 rounds the mag catch issue crept up again. CZ eventually told me that the frame was out of spec. They sent me a new 97b with a ramp job, trigger job, and made sure the gun was to spec. I sold it to finance my HK p30L v3 and have loved every second since.

My father n law is a big CZ fan. He owns several. He also told me he didnt like glocks. I took him to the range and after shooting 100 rounds with his CZ he asked if he could sqeeze a few off from my Glock 34, he shot better with my Glock than he did with his CZ. The thing is though, he has owned his CZ’s for years and doesnt shoot them much so he hasnt shot them enough to encounter any issues is my guess. I shot his CZ’s, I liked them, but theres a lot of other stuff Id buy before I bought a CZ. Ive heard good things about CZ in the past, there just not on the top of my list.

I just picked one up in a trade and I plan to use it as a training tool. My take on it is the DA trigger is pretty bad but the SA is nice. The fit and finish is very nice, but that doesn’t matter in a service pistol.

My take on them is the people that have to have something different just to be different like them a lot. If they were superior at their current price, wouldn’t more agencies/departments/teams issue them?

Shrug.

M_P

I put them in the same catagory as a XD, There’s no aftermarket support, few holster options, zero sight options, only one place in the country to get parts, DA/SA triggers are dismal at best. They seem to have trouble with springs,which are usually weak.The 85b I had, the slide stop spring went tits up after about 12-1500rnds,(CZUSA sent me a new spring for free, but it was a PITA to install) Recoil and mag springs were replaced early on, (about 700rnd mark)The ergos are great, but in my opinion, a M&P is much better. At one time,(5-6yrs ago) they were pretty cheap,making it possible to overlook some of the shortcomings,But at todays prices, no way…I bought a new M&P9 from Grant a few months back,For less than I could get a CZ for, and it dosen’t need anything replaced to make it shootable…

I would have to respectfully disagree with some of the persectives in the previous post. I feel a number of these comments about CZ’s are misleading. Here are a few supporting points about some of the options for parts, support, sights, holsters for CZ’s, etc., just so anyone reading the thread and unfamiliar with CZ’s can hear another view.

“There’s no aftermarket support”
Compared to say a Glock, it’s true that support for CZ’s is perhaps less universally available. However it seems misleading to say there’s none. In CONUS, and on CZ forums, I hear of mostly positive instances where CZ owners have gotten support, in fact most speak highly of CZ-USA’s warranty support and are quite pleased with it. I have 2 good experiences with CZ support myself from the factory, with quick turnaround and paid shipping. My father had an incident where it took awhile, but they paid shipping both ways and completely fixed his issue. Dan Wesson 1911 customers also speak very highly of their service (DW is now part of CZ). And not only is CZ-USA very good about support on warranty issues, but there are a number of smiths and 3rd party shops who do great work on CZ’s. If someone needs a list of shops for CZ support besides CZ-USA, PM me. There are plenty of places that will work on them throughout the US.

“Few holster options”.
How many holsters do you need for 1 gun? If there are 10 well known holster makers who make them for CZ’s versus over a 100 for some other popular platform, true you have “fewer” options comparatively, but you still have quite a few options. There are a good number of popular holster makers who make holsters for CZ’s. To name just a few that are often referenced in this forum: Galco, Tucker Gun Leather, Blade Tech, Raven Concealment, and the Comp-Tac Minotaur. I’d be surprised if most folks couldn’t find a leather or Kydex CZ holster that they liked just within that group, and there are plenty of others. CZ forums has a good list.

“Zero sight options”
Hasn’t been my experience. Trijicon and Meprolight both offer reasonably priced aftermarket tritium night sight sets for CZ’s. Specialized competition-oriented FO sights are made by LPA. Also Champion sights makes an adjustable tritium rear for CZ-75 family pistols. XS Sight system also makes one of their “big dot” night sight sets for CZ’s. Again, if the point is that there aren’t 100 options for sights as there are for say, a Glock, that is true. But it’s definitely misleading to suggest there are “zero” sight options. I’ve always been able to find satisfactory sight setups for my CZ’s, although I do wish Heinie would start making a set for CZ’s!

“Only one place in the country to get parts”:
Not what I’ve found. Besides CZ-USA, you can get parts from a number of other places, including CZ-Custom.com, Miossi Gun Works, the CZ-zone, JNPGunsprings.com, and other small shops or smiths who work on CZ’s. The parts are definitely not in every local gunshop and every online retailer like Glock parts would be, but they are definitely out there and stocked by multiple places. And unlike the Springfield XD and most Ruger guns, you can acquire virtually EVERY PART for a CZ to work on it yourself, if so inclined.

“DA/SA triggers are dismal at best”:
This seems more like a statement of personal preference, which is fine. But many shooters do not share this view. If you check around a bit, you’ll find there are a lot of shooters who prefer the CZ platform precisely because of its smooth and consistent (if somewhat long) trigger pull. You can read all over the place where shooters rave about the quality of a tuned CZ trigger, and even a stock CZ trigger after a good break-in. IMHO, CZ triggers are one of their greatest assets, and a tuned CZ trigger is really topped only by a tuned 1911 trigger (and some would argue, also by a tuned Hi Power). Though I like my M&P’s and especially my M&P Pro with the improved trigger pull, it does not come close to the tuned trigger on my CZ-85 combat.

We’ll have to agree to disagree about CZ’s…
My sample of one, a 85b, had a lousy stock trigger in either mode, and dispite the"It’ll break in" B.S. it never did…1000rnds later it was still lousy, and getting worse… I actually looked into getting a trigger job done on it and looked around on the 'net, Miossi gun works was one place I looked, as I recall,(please correct me if I wrong) he offers his own sears, that are properly hardened, On his site he explains that the stock sear is intentionally left “soft” so it can “break in” and get that smooth pull, Problem is, this also causes it to wear out faster,His turn around times were outrageous,18 months when I looked, and I thought he was rather expensive… At the time, I could not see dumping money into a trigger job, (figure shipping both ways, cost of trigger job) on a then sub $400 pistol. The spring issue is one that was’nt mentioned,and one I know is still a problem for CZ’s, I understand Wolfe is now supplying CZ extractor springs, They(CZ’s) were well known for being undersprung from the factory, and replacement recoil springs, mag springs from Wolfe were, and as far as I know still reccommended over stock. As I said, one could overlook the shortcomings considering the price at the time, but not now, Seeing how last time I looked, they were closing in fast on the $500 mark and considering cost of trigger job including shipping, Night sights, and installation, springs, and now you’re getting close to HK territory, To me anyway, they’re just not worth it… I’ll put a apex hard sear and and one of their FPB plungers(when they come out) in my M&P and I figure I’ll have about $75 wrapped up in it, and I’ll have a excellant trigger, for less than a CZ trigger job. They(CZ’s) may be fine for shooting matches or as a base for a custom game gun, But, I’m not a gamer, nor do I shoot pistol matches. I’m looking for a pistol to be used as a CCW, and possible home defense, I want something that’s low matainence, reliable and accurate. For me, the CZ does not meet all that critera, I had one, I gave it a chance, it failed me, So, it’s gone. Maximus…no hard feelings, I can see you’re a fan, But they just don’t impress me. I owned one for about 4 yrs, and I gave up on it.

I have a 75B .40SW and have never had any trouble out of it. I haven’t burned thousands of rounds through it either though.

I bought mine back when they were around $350 and feel I got a great deal. Incidentally, it is by far the most accurate .40 SW I have ever had and that includes a HK USP .40 and a Glock 23, that’s the main reason I like it.

To those who comment about the less than impressive DA/SA factory trigger, I’ve never seen any factory gun that had an impressive DA/SA out of the box! I will say mine is better than any M9 I ever fired.

I have heard of breakages with the slide stop but again I haven’t really pushed mine that hard so that hasn’t been my personal experience.

I like mine :cool:

It doesn’t matter what gun you have, some will like it, others will dislike it. I have a Rossi 357Magnum that I really enjoy and I know many people would never buy one. The fact is, there is no such thing as a perfect gun. Some are closer to perfect than others, and IMO its those guns that fail the least that the military and LE are running.

I’ve got a pistol with a pretty impressive DA/SA trigger and it’s stock. A S&W 586,I know it’s a wheel gun, and I don’t know if I just got lucky or what, but it is smooth, and one can easily use it in DA mode. It got me wanting to learn to use DA mode on semi-autos that I had. As far as a Semi-auto’s go, I’ve also got 2 HK’s (A P-2000 and a USP) both with a light LEM trigger, If you’ve never tried one, try one sometime, you might be impressed…

IIRC, several yrs ago when the first 20K of a 40K CZ contract was delivered to the PCR, the whole lot was rejected for QC probs.

I’ve had several Czs over the yrs, had minor problems w all of them. OTOH, I can say that about most of the M1911A1s I was issued, and most of the commercial 1911s I’ve had over the yrs since 1980. Some real gems in there too though.

I had a CZ Po1 and used snap caps to dry fire the snot out of it.I ran at least 4 boxes through it but the trigger was always gritty.It was however accurate.

I just sold it at a small loss and stayed with my Glock and Sig for the 9mm platform.
Didn’t impress me and I won’t buy another.

I had a 97B that I shot better than my USP 45 and Springfield TRP. It ran great but I only had about 1k through it so who knows how it would have held up in the long run. I thought it was a nice gun but heavy.