After reading up on pistol ammunition (wikipedia:p) I came across the 38 super.
I immediately think “a magnum 9mm”. It seems to have plenty of energy and is said to be more controllable than some of the big bores like 40 and 45, and you can have a very high mag capacity too.
So what’s up with the 38 super? Why isn’t it a common self defense round like the big 3 in the title?
In terms of terminal performance it doesn’t offer much (if any) above 9mm +P Actually, with current loads the 9 mm is better, since nobody loads last generation JHP in 38 super.
It needs long magazines (read: big grip in a double stack), and cannot fit in the 9mm/40 size hi-cap pistols.
When the .38 ACP was first making its debut…the round was considered under powered. The other and more pressing issue with the round was due to how the cartridge headspaced, which was off the semi-rimmed casing. Reliablility and accuracy suffered due to the rim being insufficent for a good purchase when the slide came into battery.
The Casing was beefed up especially in the web area and redesignated as the .38 Super. The next issue many shooters had with the Super was due to the Chambers and Barrels Colt used in production. The chambers were cut which left the web unsupported and the term “Super Face” was used to describe shooters who received powder gas in the face when a casing would blow out.
Remington began manufacturing higher quality +P Brass and with the rising popularity of this round in the IPSC circles most Barrel manufactures began building barrels that not only properly supported the casing around the web…but also allowed the round to headspace off of the case mouth. The higher pressure loads of the Super worked very well in Compensated guns and with heavier weight bullets this allowed for higher pressure loads that would make Major Power factor in the shooting sports that required such. Something that cannot be done safely in a modern 9X19mm.
I personally love the round, but many who experienced the noted problems of the Super just decided that it was too much to bother with and just shot .45 ACP to make Major, or stuck with the 9mm and its lower recoil.
I think that the biggest reason though that the round remains unpopular even today is due to a lack of high quality Factory Self Defense loadings…While there are more loads available today than back in the late eighties and ninties when I was shooting it…The venerable Winchester Silvertip was about all that could be had for a decent self defense round for this chambering.
The Super does actually enjoy a decent popularity south of the border where Military Cartridges are heavily regulated, and as I stated above…I still like the round.
The .38 Super was the .357SIG back in the day. But it required a 1911 style frame back then which was already popular.
Nowadays a 9mm sized frame gun is king and anything that can basically fit it hence why the .40 became popular. It’s started at 10mm, then FBI started downloading it and S&W figured out that they could cut the casing down and still make the same power and fit it in a 9mm sized gun and wala the .40S&W. Glock beat them to the punch with the introduction of the Glock 22 in the .40S&W cartidge.
.38 Super is still very popular with USPSA/IPSC shooters in the Open class the vast majority of these guns are 1911s/2011s or CZ variants. Others use 9 Major which is a 9x19 casing (much more plentiful brass and is cheaper) loaded A LOT hotter pushing a 124/125gr bullet at 1330fps this would blow up most 9mm regular pistols (for better scoring in USPSA/IPSC it’s better to shoot Major power factor the equation is bullet weight x velocity divided by 1000, 165 is minimum for Major and 125 is minimum for Minor) It’s a little harder to get 1911/2011 pattern guns to run on 9 Major do to the shorter case and the way the pressure works but good pistol 'smiths can do it. 9 Major guns can be made from Glocks, M&Ps, CZ75s and others. These will have compensators and lightened slides and lighter recoil springs.
Here’s Julie G. shooter her Open class M&P in 9 Major from last year, I think she’s playing with an Aimpoint Micro now. (picture by my friend Yamil R. Sued)
This is not the case in Mexico, at least for the last 15 (20 or more?) years the 38 super is not allowed, you can only own up to 380 ACP or 38 spl.
Crazy mexicans still think the 38 super has some mythical powers, but cannot legally own it.
I don’t now any other latin american country with a restrictive legislation where the 38 super is allowed but the 9 mm, 40 or 45 are not… perhaps some small centro american country? Not in south america.
It needs long magazines (read: big grip in a double stack), and cannot fit in the 9mm/40 size hi-cap pistols.
If I’m not mistaken, isn’t the 38 super as long as the 45 acp?
If that’s true, then taking a double stack 45 and turning it into a 38 super shouldn’t be difficult from a manufacturers point of view, just like 9mm/40sw framed pistols, right?
I also want to know why the 38 super isn’t common from an economical standpoint. A more potent round that doesn’t use more lead and copper (ie: 45acp and its price in todays market).
It’s a cool caliber, the semi rim kind of hampers it and as stated, a good 124 gr. +P or 127 gr. +P+ 9mm load will do just about anything a defensive pistol round can do, and certainly anything a standard .38 Super load can do.
Corbon does load a 125 gr. bonded hollow point .38 Super to about 100 fps faster than their 9mm 125 gr. load, but that doesn’t necessarily translate into anything better on two legged predators.
The .38 Super’s heyday was in the 1930’s, 40’s and 50’s.
If I’m not mistaken, the Texas Dept. of Public Safety issued .38 Supers to Texas Rangers for a period of time. The 130 gr. FMJ was supposed to defeat barriers better than some other semi auto loads. But remember, this was also the time when people thought that the 200 gr. LRN “Police” load for .38 Special was a heavy hitting manstopper…
I have a Colt Commercial Government Model that was made in 1947, just about the first year they resumed civilian production. It’s made up of pre-war parts that Colt had laying around mothballed while they were geared up for wartime production. It’s a cool piece, and whoever had it before me certainly carried it and depended on it.
Mexico restricted the .38 Super to military only status in 1968. Part of the reason it has such a following here is the same reason as the .45 here. The military used it for generations and for many people that is their only real experience with handguns.