Hey everyone, my name is Mark, I’m a new member to this site. I was just wondering why everyone, or alot of people say that DPMS is a junk rifle? I have a pretty standard DPMS M4. It is my first and, (for now), only AR-15. It has never given me any trouble, it has gone bang every time. I have shot alongside a Bushmaster 20" upper with a DPMS lower, and I was doing just as well, if not better than that fella. I suppose I just can’t understand how yall can say that these rifles, all of the same design, and with interchangable parts, differ to the extent that many people have said they do. And I know the pistol in the pic is an M&P9mm and not a Glock. The reason it says Glock is because I recently got a Glock and there were pictures of it in the batch I uploaded off my phone and thats just what i named the folder. haha
It really depends on what you will use your carbine for. If it is just for casual shooting, it’s a good gun for the price. But if you are into serious shooting like going to a tactical class using in excess of 1000rds, or a duty gun for L.E., there are better options other than a DPMS. If it works good for you, great as long as you’re happy with it.
[ul]
[li]No HP/MPI testing of the barrel
[/li][li]May or may not be labeled 5.56…in actuality it is a .223 chamber
[/li][li]the bore may or may not be chrome lined
[/li][li]1/9" twist…not 1/7" twist
[/li][li]sub-standard steel used in barrel
[/li][li]No HP/MPI testing of bolt
[/li][li]Bolt carrier not properly staked
[/li][li]Castle nut not properly staked
[/li][li]May or may not have a mil-spec buffer tube
[/li][li]Wrong extractor insert
[/li][/ul]
This is a partial list. Basically DPMS makes no effort to adhere to the TDP standards set forth by the DOD and widely accepted as “the standard” in building weapons intended for real world use.
Some things you can do:
Ask yourself, what is the intended purpose of this weapon?
If it is to go to the range a couple times a year and fire a couple hundred rounds of ammo in that time span then you should be fine.
If you are serious about taking formal instruction and participating in a high stress high round count class then you will need to make some changes so as to avoid potential problems and failures with your weapon. My advise? Sell your upper and purchase a complete upper from BCM or LMT with a new bolt/bolt carrier from the same.
Couple things. First, you do not know what you do not know. Meaning that you have zero experience with any other AR platform (so you have nothing to compare your DPMS to). The other AR you mention is also considered “ok” at best. So you really have not compared your AR to a better one.
When you say that it goes “bang” everytime for you, how many times is that? How many carbine schools have you taken it through? How old is your AR and how many rounds have you got through it?
Have you reviewed Rob’s chart yet to see why and how your AR stacks up again the other ones?? Just a quick hint, “parts is not parts!” Just because you can take parts out of your DPMS and install them in a Colt, does NOT mean that they are of the same quality (FYI).
C4
P.S. Welcome to the forum. Spend A LOT OF TIME READING.
As was suggested before, read the stickies at the top of both the AR general discussion and technical discussion pages. There is a wealth of information there and will answer most if not all of your questions. Depending on how you’ve run your DPMS so far, it may have functioned flawlessly for you. The vast majority of the issues you will hear about with DPMS may never manifest with you if you only shoot from a bench or use it to kill paper and beer cans. (There is nothing wrong with this either)
Just to list a few issues with DPMS:
Quality control has been uniformly poor across the board
Marked as a 5.56 chamber when it is acutually .223 (big difference in the two)
BCG are not properly staked
Improper extractor insert and spring
1/9 barrel (an issue if you shoot rounds heavier than 62 grn)
Barrel steel is lower quality than TDP requires
Castle nut not properly staked
Incorrect FSB (on some I have recently seen) for a flat top receiver
Should run a H buffer
Those are just a few I can remember off the top of my head. This does not mean that your DPMS will not serve your needs. I would have my doubts about it making it through a high round count training class without some issues.
They just are not built like more high quality guns.
For example: I have a DPMS lower (LPK will be swaped out if I ever get around to it) and after only 300+/- rounds the hammer pin is already rotating and walking out.
The hammer pin is held in place by the “J” spring that sits inside the hammer. Take the hammer out and see if it is damaged or missing. If so, get a new one.
DPMS has great marketing but piss-poor quality control. From my direct, personal experience, I know that DPMS’s barrels are rough, third-world quality tomato stakes. It makes me angry just thinking about it.
Their uppers, lowers, and parts in general have ragged tolerances. DPMS’s products is not for serious shooters, those who might need to rely on their rifle in an emergency, or someone that wants value for their money.
Here is a post I started after being told by a local dealer about how DPMS is the very bestest and mostest mil spec rifle you can buy. The guy is a good dude, but his opinion is not shared by many outside of…of… his own head. https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=29242&highlight=DPMS
It does appear that DPMS makes a ton of rifles and a ton of rifle parts, and I would assume that although they may not be the top tier company, like many others, they will do in a pinch. Not every dept and not every security contractor uses the top tier guns, many run Stag/DPMS/BushMaster or whatever brand you want to talk about, and many of those guns will fire a couple thousand rounds a year in training and not have dramatic failure rates.
In the end, if you could afford a Colt/DD/CDD or one of the other “top tier” rifles, your best off just going to that level. If you honestly can not afford it, or a good deal is laying in front of you for a lesser rifle, it will not be the end of the world. The sun will rise again tomorow and your creditors will still be calling… nothing in your life will change.
Push your hammer pin out and look at the bottom of the hammer and you should see a round spring that goes up inside the hammer. Then look at the hole tha the pin passes though and it should protrude slightly into the hole. The center groove of the pin locks into that pin and that’s what holds it in place.
Not true. Most companies are using Colt followed by Bushmaster. Actually the Bushmasters have not been doing so well here and they are/ have broke down more so than the Colts. I have had nothing but headaches from our Bushmasters due to their corner cutting.
For some people, a rifle that fails to perform properly due to poor quality control is, as you said, not a big deal. These are kids and plinkers.
You don’t have to be current military or a security contractor in Rahmdi to realize that quality matters in important ways when it comes to guns. It matters a hell of a lot more than it does for cars, boats, or TV’s. Guns are important things. Guns can take lives. Guns can save lives.
Any adult male that takes American history seriously, and understands the reasons behind the 2nd Amendment realizes that, at some time during the useful lifetime of their gun, it may well need to be used for are more than just plinking or “huntin squirrels 'n sich” (name that quote). Maybe by them. Maybe by their son. Maybe by their grandson. Will your AR15 still be operating dependably when you, or your son, or your grandson needs to defend the family? At that critical moment, if it fails because of poor quality and third-rate Chinese parts, can you say “nothing in your life will change?”
DPMS is “use it till it breaks then toss it” junk, the Harbor Freight Tools of firearms. I’m ashamed to admit I own one. Gotta get rid of that POS.
For some people an AR is just a plaything to plink with end enjoy. They shoot a few hundred rounds through it several time a year. If it can do that they are happy. It will never be run through a class where 1,000+ rounds are put down range in 2 or 3 days. They will never push it hard and will be in bliss.
Many, probably most people here, want a rifle that is built to standards that make it capable of much more. They desire, and are willing to pay a little more for, a rifle that is capable of being pressed into battle if that where ever needed. Yes, it will probably never see a battle field. But if you going to have a rifle, why not have one that can handle extreme use, weather needed or not. I don’t need a car that can go over 90 MPH, but it is nice to have a lot of extra HP in case you should ever need it.
If your happy with it, GREAT! Some others have run into issues when pushing them in a carbine course. Many here have learned an extra few hundred dollars will buy you a rifle capable of being taken anywhere and perform with less potential for issues.
