Sure, ARs are used in 3-gun matches, but the AR is so versatile that I’d like to see a match where all that is used are ARs, or similar assault rifles, but I’ve yet to see such a competition.
This seems to be a big hole in the shooting sports. The AR can shoot well out to 500 yards, but not many owners ever shoot theirs past 100 yards, I’m willing to bet. One reason is that there are no matches designed around them. Sure there are Carbine Classes, but those are not an activity that most can attend regularly. If you don’t train with your AR regularly, how are you to become or remain proficient? 3 gun matches are okay I guess, but not everybody is interested in pistols or shotguns, or both. Precision matches are okay and have their place, but the distances typically shot are well beyond the AR envelope, or even realistic real-world scenarios, and of course a precision rifle is useless at close ranges. ARs can do everything the regular guy is likely to need.
I tried to work up interest in a local AR shooting league last year with little success.
Many USPSA matches have ‘side matches’. Blackwater has one this month (3rd Sunday). It’s a stage where it’s ONLY rifle, simple rules USPSA scoring and you’re either Open class or Limited (scope or irons).
I run a local carbine match. We’re limited to a 100 yard range, so the longest shots we can make are 130 yards+/- shooting diagonally. I try to make up for the lack of distance by having people shoot our 4" steel.
Everyone’s tastes are different. If you design a match too much around your particular wants you’ll be shooting alone very quickly. By the same token, if you’re the one running it you should get to shoot it how you want to. As an example, I have gotten pressure from time to time from people that want to turn it into 3-gun and add shotgun, but I’m not doing it.
We do mostly CQB distances, and we try to work in reloads and transitions where possible. We run 3 stages per match, and as a rule of thumb I try to make one include a reload and one include a transition. I also try to work in at least one drills stage, and at least one with some kind of “surprise”.
For example, a “surprise” stage we had last year was shot from the back of a moving trailer pulled behind an SUV. There were targets painted red and an equal number painted green. At the start of the stage you flipped a coin to determine the color that you were to engage, with the other color becoming non-threats. It was tons of fun, and everyone really enjoyed themselves.
We’ve also done drills stages where we shot the same basic stage; once with a reload and once with a transition.
We’ve done team stages with the steel at 130 yards and a scattering of cardboard at 25 yards and less with one shooter playing the “sniper” and shooting at the steel and the other providing cover by shooting the cardboard closer in.
I suggest you get yourself involved with your local IDPA or IPSC club and try to get them to run some kind of side matches. That is kind of how ours evolved.
No, I mean the exact opposite of the Wimbledon Cup, or any such abstract quest for “points”.
I want an event that puts holes in paper. Not one where people vie for meaningless, arbitrary “points”.
Holes in paper as in human-shaped targets succesfully hit, hit anywhere.
But I seem to be in the minority in that respect. Most if not all matches revolve around generating lists of who is better than who; in the more popular of these follies gew-gaws are given away to the golden boys.
I’d be happy taking home a set of targets with holes in them.
The natural disposition of someone who participates in any event that is organized is to try to do better than the dude or dudette standing next to them…
If you subscribe to the “Only hits count” philosophy, then perhaps organized shooting matches are not for you?
I would have to respectfully disagree on that one. When I am shooting I am generally trying to improve my skill set and have fun. I really don’t care where my scores fall. I generally don’t have the time to train or compete on the same level as some of the other folk, nor do I really have a desire to.
Competition and social heirarchy are inseperable from the human condition.
But I would like to see a match that doesn’t turn into a race for points. Of course it would be scored, but only in terms of targets engaged and hit, so theoretically several shooters could end up being “#1”. Depending on the course of fire though, speed would be emphesized, so there is always the clock to beat. Scores would help you see where you are in relation to others, and how your skill level evolves over time.
Another thing I would ban would be restrictions on firing positions, which is one of the things that annoy me about the matches I have been to. Too artificial; too contrived IMHO. Let the shooter pick his own way of doing things.
We only restrict firing positions for safety and/or for “drills” stages. If the point is to shoot prone, kneeling, standing from 3 positions then you’re going to have to shoot from those positions. Otherwise the shooter is free to take a knee, shoot standing, whatever, so long as it is safe and doesn’t result in rounds leaving the range.
Our scoring is intended to reward accuracy over speed and to reflect the real-world implications of shooting a friendly or missing a threat; either one gets you penalized 30 seconds.
We use standard IDPA targets. To neutralize a target, you need at least 2 shots in the -0 or at least 3 shots in the -1 or better. -3 don’t count for anything. In other words, you can have one COM and one headshot and the target is “neutralized”, or you can have one COM and two -1 for the same result. Targets are score as either neutralized or not. It makes scoring very quick, and allows even the most inexperienced of our shooters to help score.
Isn’t that redundant? Of course you do. Even if you just want to measure your own improvement from match to match, you still need some kind of scoring system to do so.
Safety, of course. That is more applicable in “close-in” shooting. But if targets were engaged at longer ranges (200-500 meters), then the shooter should choose his best stance. If the targets were to stay up only a short time, you might loose shooting time deploying a bipod and going prone…but that should be the shooter’s call.
We also require that you use the same gun for the whole match, and that whatever accessories you have attached to the gun on the first stage remain on the gun for the entire match. In other words, you don’t get to shoot the lowlight CQB stage with a light and an Aimpoint, and then change to a 10x and for the long-range stage.
Templar and I were doing this for a few years at our local monthly IDPA match, but it was alternating rifle one month/shotgun the next (we like both:D ). Some folks would show up for one and not the other, but it was usually the same crowd everytime just wanting something beyond the handgun-only venue.
Sadly, had to give it up this year due to a combination of factors.
Rob, your set-up sounds outstanding! Were I down there I would be a regular participant. Keep up the great work!
Randy/Tim,
If Cavalier does go back to holding side matches (both) please let me know. I enjoy their IDPA matches but that’s a long way to go for me just to shoot an IDPA match, the side matches were a much bigger incentive to head down there.
Not to hijack, but I think both Randy and I got burned out running these things, it’s a lot of effort, with (usually) very little help, and the while we did get help from the IDPA bigwigs, it was usually given very grudgingly.
I like rob_s’ scoring, that sounds like a very effective, no hassle way to do it, and when someone like myself is math challenged, anything that makes scoring simple and fast, while maintaining a degree of realism, is welcome.
Sadly, the IDPA program is hurting at Cavalier since all the concessions we had to agree to with the county.
It would have been more do-able for me last year except:
(1) all side matches were permanently exciled to the back range to appease the noise-sensitive neighbors,
(2) all stage equipment (steel, barricades,etc.) was still stored at the opposite end of the property, requiring multiple pick-up truck loads before even setting up, and then all back again after a long day running shooters and tearing down, and
(3) a marked decline in “bigwig” support upon transfer of the IDPA part of the match to new leadership that year (policy implied to me “It’s not my problem – go away.”)
Sundays suffer from the 3-pm cut-off. If they were to move it to Saturday, it could run until sunset.
Even the IDPA part has been reduced in scope, again as a result of the change in “vision”. A lot of folks no longer come, even for pistol only (me included).
I miss it as much as anyone. The back range is planned to be re-built in the coming year, with all matches (and match-gear strorage) re-located there upon completion. If an improvement in “bigwig” support can then be mustered, I may entertain the possibility of getting some kind of action rifle and shotgun going again. Such an advent would be posted prominently here and elsewhere.
To get pre-hijcak and back on-topic, these are the kinds of things that could account for there not being more rifle matches.
Keep up the great work!