Well yeah, the P320 is striker fired.
Described as “DAO” though…its closer to a hammer-fired SAO
Kind of a misleading description then. No second strike like a DA or DAO, and feels like a hammer fired SAO.
Excellent! Marketing didn’t talk to anyone who had handled or designed the thing.
I get that, but, frankly, I can’t even begin to calculate the number of “hard” 9mm DOD primers I’ve reliably ignited with various Glocks (both issued and personally owned approved on duty). I wouldn’t be at all surprised to find it’s upwards of 100K since 2006. My G30S has no problem with the “hard” primers on the loaded-in-1985 .45 FMJ I got recently through the system. I think the hard primer argument is going to turn out to be much ado about nothing. In fact, I believe it came about in the initial 9mm handgun trials to keep DA/SA pistol manufacturers from submitted “match” grade light triggers to make their offerings more attractive.
Regards,
Kevin
Didn’t an Army unit recently switch from Gen 3 22s and 35s to Gen 4 17s and 34s?
They could always make a slightly longer striker, just like some companies make for hammer fired guns running lighter triggers.
Did some digging…the required spec for 1984 was based on igniting any NATO standard primers. “24 inch ounces of firing pin energy”…no idea how that translates to a spec for primer strike depth.
Some other googling yields ranges for primer indentation of 0.011-0.032" depending on whether manufacturer or SAAMI numbers are used.
call me a cynic but I not believe that this will change. I think they will stay with beretta just as they have remained with colt despite the fact that there are better choices available. There will be no wholesale shift for the armed forces from 9mm to .45 ACP for at least three reasons; 1) NATO a interoperability 2) capacity / combat load weight 3) controllability.
Beretta released a new tarted up FDE version of the M9 with a rail, dovetailed front sight, and a modular grip, it was shown in the Army times recently. That will likely be the “new” pistol. The military tends to stick with what they have invested in wheat her or not it’s the best, the only exceptions to this are for the Special Operations guys who get smaller contracts to outfit their guys with better equipment.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Beretta USA posted this on their FB page today:
Beretta was contacted on Jan 9 by the US Army contracting officer of the M9 Contract, who informed us that, contrary to what is being reported, no final decision has been made regarding the M9A3 proposal and that her office will inform us of any future developments
It seems the original article quoted “an anonymous source in PEO Soldier”. So much for solid journalism, eh? Likely a plant from a competitor or just a rush to be first to print for ratings.
I think it’s likely the Army will accept the ECP for the M9A3 (it just makes sense) while the MHS procurement soldiers on…at a lower level of urgency.
The US military, in all of its infinite wisdom, will follow the example of US Federal police agencies…only they are about two decades behind us. 20yrs ago we transitioned to .40 and .45 only to have agent shooting performance drastically decrease, general handling characteristics decrease, and platform durability and lifespan greatly decrease. If you call a good shoot one in which a fewer number of rounds are fired in order to stop the threat, statistically our OISs are worse than the days when we favored the .36 caliber. Like the FBI, we have gradually been transitioning back to 9mm over the last 5 years and things in general have improved.
I agree, although does it get any less urgent than a NON Program of Record?
Sure, when the cost of procurement exceeds projected savings. The ECP softens the blow of the reconditioning the aging stock of M9’s that are likely the bigger driver of total lifecycle cost.
I would love to see our military adopting the HK45.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Can you explain your reasoning, or is this just a personal preference of yours?
Admittedly, I do have a personal preference which developed after trying numerous types / mfg. of pistols. However, I believe the HK45 brings to the table a lot features that the military is looking for. To start with it is made in the United States. It also recognized that many elements of our armed forces are already using the HK45. The reliability of this pistol is unquestioned and although not specifically required there is a great deal of flexibility with the trigger / safety / de cocking system.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
The HK45 would be an excellent choice. It was developed for a similar program and was selected by the SEALS as their .45. The FN is also nice (15 rounds!) but its ergonomics are slightly inferior (IMHO). I owned a M&P45 for a while and while it had great ergonomics, it was definitely the finicky one of the bunch. Of course, maybe with General Dynamics in the mix they can get some top-level engineers on the project and come up with something truly awesome.
The US military, in all of its infinite wisdom, will follow the example of US Federal police agencies…only they are about two decades behind us. 20yrs ago we transitioned to .40 and .45 only to have agent shooting performance drastically decrease, general handling characteristics decrease, and platform durability and lifespan greatly decrease. If you call a good shoot one in which a fewer number of rounds are fired in order to stop the threat, statistically our OISs are worse than the days when we favored the .36 caliber. Like the FBI, we have gradually been transitioning back to 9mm over the last 5 years and things in general have improved.
The military started screaming for .45 soon after the wars started. They had been fine with the 9mm until actual stuff happened. My read of the FBIs move back to 9mm is that they are having a hard time getting new recruits to qualify (try .22, LOL) and want to save some money. Frankly, the FBI was only involved in about 150 shootings from from 1993 to 2011. That’s about 19 per year and that includes rifle and pistol (regional tac teams,HRT, etc). Usually moves to more powerful calibers are based on real incidents (whether they are over-reactions or not) and moves to smaller calibers are logistical or political.
That should be etched in braille…
I don’t want a new pistol. I want to see the Army finally take pistol shooting seriously and start giving us the range time and ammo we need to become more proficient with the platform we have.
The hardest thing on our M9s lifecycle in my unit is the over cleaning Joes do to them after each field exercise. I’ve seen them shot a whopping 200rds total in the two years I’ve been in my current Company, and yet we wonder why guys can’t shoot them worth a shit. But everyone is all up in a roar about getting a more accurate pistol, how 9mm sucks, and how the M9 sucks, etc. The only real problem I’ve seen with the M9 are the 10+ year old magazines being issued with them and the lack of replacement parts at the Company level.
The overwhelming majority of M9s in the Army are carried by Officers and staff pukes on deployment who can’t be bothered to carry a rifle around. It’s more of a matter of convenience than a fighting tool to many of them.
The units that have a legitimate offensive need for a sidearm already issue something else. For the rest of us, give us quality training before trying to fix the hardware.
Insert “wz.94 Wist” in place of “M9” and you will get exact story of Polish issue pistol in Iraq. OK, there were actual issues with this pistol, that warrant it’s replacement, but 80% of the cases was troops that did not have faintest idea not only how to shoot pistols, but even how to grip it.
As I see it M9 could be phased out for something simplier to use and maintain, while lighter at same time (ounces are pounds or something like that). Polish military experience from Iraq and Afghanistan shows that in those conditions hammer fired guns are more reliable that striker fired ones (except wz.94 Wist lot of Glocks were used by our SOF). With prospect of going back to sandy landscapes sooner than later this is valid issue. Result was HK USP SD9 adopted as standard issue pistol in Polish SOF. But I think USP is bit of a overkill to replace M9. My candidate would be HK P30 or P30L with LEM trigger. Or HK45 if something more juicy than 9mm or .40sw is needed.
But I agree that training with pistol is more important, that getting a new pistol. Especially considering that it is much harder to learn shooting good with pistol than with rifle.
IMHO, this acquisition should shop dead in its tracks. The problem with sidearms in the DoD is mostly policy and dumb-as-rock program office civil servants, not hardware.