Who likes H&K's P7s and doesn't think they are a waste of $$$??

General Firearms Handguns - Semi Auto
1

I’d like to hear your opinions on them, see pics of ones you own and learn a little bit about them. I know quite a bit, but the one thing I know I know for sure is that I don’t know enough to purchase one.

I would like to purchase ONE and do it right the first time! NOT like I did with 1911s and buy a friggin’s S&W!!

Of course I won’t make the mistake of buying a SW P7 as that would be impossible. What I mean is I don’t want to go the cheap route and get burned but I don’t want to spend too much on too much.

I would like to be able to shoot the sonofabitch!

2

I’ve got to shoot several. I’ve even handled the .40cal version. The only thing I don’t like about them is how hot the underside of the frame gets near the barrel.

3

I actually bought one tonight, but have used them in the past.

PROS:

  1. HK quality
  2. Accuracy of a fixed barrel
  3. Ergonomic
  4. Great trigger
  5. Good sights
  6. Slim, compact, and concealable

CONS:

  1. Expensive
  2. Mag release on butt sucks…variants with normal frame mounted ones cost much more
  3. Mags are expensive $60+
  4. 8 rds of 9mm…:frowning:
  5. HOT barrel above trigger
  6. Holster options limited…just like the sight options, grip options, light options(nonexistant)
  7. Your’e supporting the dudes that hate the public shooting community
  8. The manual of arms is different to the degree that this needs to be your only carry gun since the trigger is so sensitive once cocked. I keep mine as a plinker/conversation piece.

I love the P7, even with all it’s negatives. it feels and shoots like no other, and is made with all the care of a Rolex.

4

I carried an early P7M8 for about 7 years in the 90’s.

I loved it. Very flat, easy to carry with the right rig, and fast.

Did I say fast?

Fast.

Also, it was so accurate it was scary.

It was also fast…:smiley:

The one thing that I didn’t like about it was that it heats up very quickly, to the point of being uncomfortable after 50 rounds. The gas operation makes it accurate and fairly mild shooting, but the gas piston is located under the barrel right over your trigger finger and the heat travels down the grip area.

I could deal with the squeeze cocking mechanism, it’s just training.

I bought another when HK announced that they weren’t going to produce them anymore. I’d been shooting and carrying my SIG P226 by then for several years, and when I tried to go back to the P7M8, I was a little dissapointed.

Still extremely accurate, still fast, but the weight of the pistol in relation to the capacity truned me off, and the heat issue was the straw that caused me to sell it and keep shooting my SIG.

If I had an extra $1500.00 laying around and didn’t have other things to buy, I’d get another one. They’re “neat” guns, unique, and as I’ve said, very accurate pieces.

I don’t know how you’d “not do it right” if you want one, since the only on you’re going to buy is going to be a real HK.

5

I’d be buying an M8 or an M13- that’s for sure. So, it would have the standard USP and newer type mag release, not the European style butt release.

Now, the main drawback to me is the heat issue- I’ve heard that the heat is a major issue and think it would be something I’d learn to hate. I can’t go to the range and only put 50 rounds through a gun. The 1911 gets 200 per trip on average. The suppressed 92fs will get at least 100 rounds through it when I feel like buying 9mm.

That brings up a good point- after a mag I usually try to retighten the suppressor. It’s usually too hot to handle bare handed after 15 rounds and I’ll set it down for a bit while I reload another mag. So, if that’s all the time I’d have to spend to let the P7 cool down between firings to keep it from getting unbearable, I’m willing to accept it.

What sucks is that I hear threaded barrels are upwards of $200-$400 and I’d really like to use the Matrix9 I have on anything I get in 9mm- I feel it would be stupid not to keep that in mind.

As far as sights and holsters being drawbacks, I’ve seen newer PMs with night sigthts that look like mini versions of the 10-8 sight I put on my SA.

I’ve also seen a few holsters that seem to work well with the P7s.

So they are fast, huh? Fast to draw, aim?

M4- what did you buy tonight? M7? M13? How used? Refurb’d or milled Police trade in?

I have a thought- if 8 rounds of .45 is good enough for carry and personal protection, 8 rounds of a decent 9mm ought to be enough as well. I will NOT be up against 8 attackers where each round will have to incapacitate an attacker by itself. More than likely there won’t ever be enough bad guys to where they’d be able to receive less than 3 each, hopefully!

6

I found this little beauty today:

S/N 16-128XXX, HK P7M8 Pistol, 9mm, KI date code, 1998 German mfg., Sterling, VA marked, with NO WARNING on slide. Original finish, excellent condition with only very light finish wear on the sharp edges. Includes custom walnut Nill Grips, OEM black plastic storage case with red HK logo, and 2 factory mags, (no cleaning tools or owners manual), and Master cable lock.

$1285 with the Walnut Grips or $1195 with standard Black.

7

Oh, and a big drawback to these guns that noone mentioned is the size compared to a 15 round G19!!

If you look only at the size, capacity, weight and price, the G19 wins hands down…

8

The PSP’s and P7’s have the older heel mag release and no heat shield, all the M series have the ambi mag release behind the trigger guard where you’d expect them to be, and a heat shield.

If you give the pistol a little while to cool off, you’re ok…but shooting an IDPA match with one will make a man out of you…:wink:

The pistols present very quickly, and have a very fast reset time. The very low bore angle and gas operation make it easy to keep on target.

I mentioned the weight to capacity issue as the main reason I sold my second one and went back to the SIG…

9

I got a PSP/P7. I once had an M13, but they commanded such a high price I sold it. I didn’t want to hang onto a $1700 gun I had no use for. I’d get an M8 if I wanted one to carry.

10

SHz,

If you can get one, do it. IMHO, the finest 9mm ever made. I’ve only carried 3 pistols in 26 years and a P7M13 was for over half of that time.

They are trick pieces, incredibly accurate with that fixed barrel. The unique manual of arms requires practice but it’s worth it.

I have a P7K3 .380 with the .32 and .22 conversion kits. The .380 makes a PERFECT bug.

The 13 requires pretty big hands. The M8 is a great choice. That’s plenty of rounds for most social situations.

I know they are spendy but you get what you pay for and they hold their value well.

11

Ok, well we should stick to talking about the M8 then…

I doubt I will spring for an M13 and I won’t be buying a PSP in all honesty.

So, Templar (or anyone else)- is the heat issue NOT an issue as long as we are talking about M7s/10s/13s? That heat shield can’t help too much…

If SW really refunds 100% of the cost of that 1911 that means I’ll only have to come up with another $510+shipping for that particular M8 I showed above…

Damn…

12

Nope, the heat shield helps, but doesn’t fix the issue. They still get damn hot.

The GSG9 and Bundespolizei weren’t looking to get into extended shootouts with these things (they have MP5’s and G36’s for that), but as a carry piece they are great.

13

I bought two of the German Police Trade guns several years ago. I thought enough of them that I sent one to Robar and had it done in NP3, and I had the other one done in Wilson’s Armor Tuff.

I eventually sold the Armor Tuff gun, but I carried the NP3 one for several years. I still shoot it occasionally.

However, I quickly figured out that the P7M8 has a very unique manual of arms. If you expect to shoot and carry one, it better be the ONLY handgun you use seriously.

I like shooting 1911’s and Glock’s too much to give them up, so I retired the P7 to Toy status.

14

Oh, I forgot to add- my FFL has two P-somethings with mag releases on the butt. Both are VERY worn and dirty. They have, I belive, the BMI mark that has lines through it on the slide- not the usual machined area. They are not plum, they are blued or blackened but very worn.

They are not filthy, but they haven’t been cleaned by him. He has $875 in each of them and is asking $975. I don’t know the date codes or whether they have matching mags in pairs or not.

He also won’t let me rent them like the other used guns- he “doesn’t rent out $1k guns…”

:rolleyes:

15

Maybe this is important, maybe not-

I have carried a Glock32 for 3 years. Never had to draw on or shoot anyone. I owned a P239 before that- same thing- uneventful (pretty much:)

I’ve had a 92fs as a host for a suppressor for about 6 months and have never carried it- it’s a brick. I recently got into the 1911. I haven’t gotten a decent holster yet and don’t carry it. I’ve only put a combined 1000 rounds through my two 1911s.

I put maybe 500 through the Glock in the first two years and 1000 through it in the last year- maybe 1000 throug the 92fs.

So, what I’m getting at, is I am not yet set in my ways regarding carrying, handling and firing a pistol. I’m pretty flexible at this moment. I don’t shoot matches or anything like that where I’ve trained myself to act and react certain ways.

16

It is my CCW weapon! You cannot go wrong!

17

Hey! I’ve seen your rig in an Avatar on either HKPro or Park Cities…

18

i owned a P7M8…

honestly, I may buy another one…

It was fun as hell to shoot…as far as getting hot it does, but honestly how many of the 8 Round $60 mags are you going to own?

I had 5, so thats 40 rounds…in the time it took me to reload the mags after shooting all 40 rounds the gun was cool enough to shoot again…

as far as quick, and a different manual of arms, it certainly has that, but honestly i dont see it as being too terribly different than going from something like a glock to a 1911…

there is still a manual safety involved that must be deactivated for the pistol to fire and its a single action trigger

I think my greatest concern is that “in the heat of battle” i would be so wound up i would squeeze the de-cocker right of the gates, and it is a light trigger…

having said that, I dont know that training can eliminate that concern…certainly you can be accustomed to the squeeze cocking mechanism, but when the bullets start flying, well, human response is human response…

it is a heavy gun, thats for sure…

also, just FYI, one of the advantages of the PSP/P7 format that I have heard about over the M8 is the mag release…apparently there have been some occurrences with the “american” style mag release getting snagged on something during carry and dropping the mag…the euro heel release obviously avoids this…this seems to me to be easily fixed with a good holster, just trying to share all the info i have heard…

oh, and the last thing that always concerned me was the pure mechanics behind it…one of the things I love about the 1911 is I can literally strip it completely and if something HAD to be done, I could do it…and i am confident that i could pretty easily learn those skills on my new preferred carry piece (your dreaded smith and wessons M&P)…when you pop those grips off of that P7 though and look at the inner workings its like when the back fell off your grandad’s swiss pocket watch…the only thought is “oh shit i hope i dont break that”

19

Good post that’s drawn some great responses.

I’ve also got a soft-spot for the P7, and have owned every commercial variant ever sold (save for the K3) over the years – including the .40 brick.

Like most here, in my experience, the P7 is an astonishingly fast, amazingly accurate pistol that represents the very best of German engineering know-how. It’s a dated design now, but the pistol was so well manufactured and of such high quality that it is still an excellent choice for CCW, and well worth the price of admission.

I will say this, however; unlike the majority, I’ve migrated back to the Gen I and Gen II (PSP/P7) form factor almost exclusively. Considering that this is essentially a SHTF sidearm for most of my applications, I don’t really require high capacity. Eight properly-placed rounds are probably all that will be needed, and if not, spare magazines are quite easy to carry.

More to the point, the more conservative contours of the original/early gun are noticeably superior to every one of the Americanized variants which followed. The P7 (M-nothing, sometimes called the PSP in the United States though that is technically not correct) is considerably flatter, smaller, and even more compact than anything in later M-series (M8, M10, M13 …). In my view, it remains the preferred variant for CCW.

Some might take exception to this, of course, and it’s true that a heel-mounted magazine release is less-than-optimal for tactical reloading against the clock, but I wouldn’t go so far as to say that it hampers the process. Like anything else, with a bit of training, a heel-activated change can still be quite rapid.

All in all, the P7 still represents something of a “best kept secret” in the handgun world due to the peculiarities of it’s manual of arms and – more to the point – the high price of acquisition. I’m a 1911 guy for the most part, but it’s interesting just how many serious 1911ers also own and carry P7s. To me, that speaks volumes. The P7 isn’t the best choice for every application, but in the CCW role you would be hard-pressed to find anything better – at any price.

Chief

20

$800 is a FAIR price for a nice PSP. $975 is way too much for one from the prices I have seen. $750-850 is generally the price range I see them for. $975 for one not " as new" is borderline theivery.