Which scope?

General Firearms Precision Rifle - Bolt Gun
1

I know that there is an Optics room but I am looking for a scope for a precision rifle so I thought I would post in here. Moderators if you need to move the thread feel free to do so. I am looking for a scope for a .308 (7.62) sniper rifle. I want very good quality but I don’t want to pay just for a name. I do not have unlimited funds but I also know what I want will be somewhat pricey. The specs I would like are as follows:

Night Vision capable

Range finder

Rugged (think combat fied use)

Variable power

Long range shooting (600m+)

Thanks in advance for your input

2

You may want to rethink your requirements… to fit your needs.

3

If you have a set of requirements like that, I don’t see how or why you don’t know already.

4

The rangefinder makes that list an impossibility

The only choice you have is the Nikon and it is not combat oriented. And the rangefinder sucks. They are hit or miss when you have a good one, let alone when you have one that is integrated in an all-in-one setup.

Go to Scheels or Cabelas, they usually have them in stock–pull it out and rangefind off of various areas in the store. Also make sure to go back and re-range things you already ranged a few times. There is a great deal of fluctuation in the readings.

You don’t need a laser rangefinder to range. You’d be better off learning to range off of your reticle. There are many different choices in this department, just check out the reticle specs before you buy.

If you want to make ballistic calculation easier, the KAC software for the ipod or a Barrett BORS would work out well but is probably outside what your looking to spend.

You can also get a BDC reticle that will somewhat match the ballistic profile for your bullets/caliber but these are by no means fool proof.

And the bottom line here is you are not going to get a $600 scope that meets your combat requirement. The closest/cheapest thing out there matching up to a .308 would be a IOR M2 but its not variable power.

By defining the variable power and combat use, your automatically looking at 1200-1600 to start and thats a minimum range for a quality optic.

Night vision capable is also a subjective term. Are you talking about looking through the scope with goggles or mounting an optic with a nightvision scope on the rifle? Almost anything is “night vision capable”, but whether or not its designed to work in tandem is another story. Using goggles to try and look through a scope just doesn’t work very well, unless its a quick acquisition cqb optic like an Eotech or Aimpoint.

Again, your looking at at $1200-1600 scope, probably $200 for a mount and then whatever your night vision setup is going to cost you. Anything Gen 2+ is going to be $2000+

Nothing out there meets your 600m requirement.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/498322-REG/US_NightVision_000411_UNS_PVS_22_Universal_Night_Sight.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/438597-REG/ATN_33010_Elcan_SpecterIR_2X_Thermal.html

This ulitmately goes back to your requirement being somewhat sketchy.

You need to determine what it is your trying to do, realistically.

What you’ve defined sounds like “mall sniper”.

Almost any nightvision requirement is going to put you well inside 300m of your target.

5

I know that the scope will cost well over $600.00. I am expecting to pay 1200-1500.

I was not looking for a laser ranger finder but a reticle range finder like the night force NP-R2.

Variable power for 200-600 yds during the day.

NV comaptiable if I ever want to mount a ATNPS22 in front of the scope(probably never will)

Tactical durabilty as this will mount on a 1913 rail on a tactical style bolt gun or a SR25 clone.

I was thinking about either a Leupold Mark IV or a Nightforce. Just looking for others who may have already done the research.

This will be a long range target gun for classes and fun.

What is a “mall sniper”?:confused:

6

The Nikon scope is a “mall sniper”

:slight_smile:

You can’t go wrong with the Nightforce or Leupold. Both good optics. The PVS22 mates to 40mm objectives.

7

S&B 3-12x or 4-16x
NF 3.5-15x
Leup 3.5-10x

8

Doc- Could you explain the reasoning behind your choices? Always nice to hear what you have to say.:slight_smile:

9

I’m not Doc, but I can take a stab.

With a 600m target envelope and 7.62, your not going to necessarily need more than a 15x scope. With the “combat” caveat, the 3x range gives the operator a scope that can actually be used in limited close range situations (depending on reticle) without co-optics.

All 3 of those scopes off excellent to good low-light acquisition capability–even without night vision. All have a proven track record and are well supported by their respective manufacturers.

If 1000m targets were going to be a goal, then it goes back to 7.62 not being the best choice for that range–not that it wouldn’t work. 15x would also still work for that distance, but I’d personally rather have 25x at 1000m.

10

CAVEAT: This post is based on my own research that I’m distilling. All this information comes from the manufacturer itself or gunsmiths, snipers and others who have BTDT. This is what I understand but I could be incorrect and so I’d welcome and encourage those that find flaws in what I say to address them as it will help me in my own decisions.

I’m in the process of making a precision optic decision though my specs are different though quite stringent. I’ve had to spend hours educating myself and asking questions, not about which scope is better, but just in general what all the options are, and what the priorities should be. I’d ditch the NV idea and think of it as icing on the cake if you get it and you acknowledge you may never need it. I’m even trying to decide right now if I actually need an illuminated reticle and so honestly your requirements aren’t available for your price range. I’d spend some time doing some research and decide what you really need and what you just want. Having gone through the same thing, it’s not easy doing all the research, but it’s really necessary in this case as scopes are far more complex issue on a precision rifle than the layman realizes and you can’t get a simple/pat answer from a forum like this since individuals have their own requirements/preferences. TANSTAFL applies.

Check out the Pride Fowler, it has a lot going for it but no illuminated reticle which is why I’m trying to decide whether I really NEED illumination. I’ve no direct experience with the optic, but it comes highly recommended from a Scout-Sniper, Precision Rifle instructor (whose brother is also a member of this board). Zero-stop, variable power w/FFP, adj. parallax and a huge adjustment range aren’t usually found on optics even twice as expensive. ~$800 I keep coming back to this scope and am thinking more and more about going this route but having done a night-shoot with a non-illuminated optic, illumination is a REALLY nice thing to have, but do I need it or just want it?

I do have experience with IOR valada and they are really nice, rugged scopes, they don’t have niceties like a zero-stop, but represent significant quality for the money ~1000-1200 and have illumination, adj parallax, FFP and mil/mil or moa setups. While not strictly a combat scope, a Trijicon Accu-Point TR-23-2 has a lot of features such as side-focus but I don’t know whether its FFP and there is no zero-stop.

Leupold’s are indeed nice, but they lack the adjustment range of the other options and their line lacks an option for MOA adjustment with an MOA reticle. I have spoken to a Leupold rep about doing a custom scope through them but he told me to wait and that in a couple of month’s Leupold was going to start giving a mil adjustment option as well as MOA reticles. This would make Leupold a very nice option with all the features of the NF and then some.

Of the more well known brands, Nightforce seems to represent the best overall quality that’s still reasonably affordable. ~1600-2200. It has all the options/niceties you could want and with a great reputation it’s hard to beat. If money weren’t a factor I’d go with this scope and never look back. I’d probably also choose this scope over S&B for its value. That said FFP is only available on their most expensive model of the 3-12 which lacks some of the other features. So to use the reticle you’d need to know (and probably keep it on) the power where the reticle works. This eliminates a lot of the advantages of variable power except for snap shooting. All told I’m convinced that a variable power scope w/o FFP adds a layer of complexity I don’t want to have to mess with, same with a mil reticle with moa adjustments.

One thing I’m leaning more and more to is a fixed rather than variable power. You can get a lot more scope for the money with a fixed power which eliminates the need to worry about focal planes. There is a reason a fixed 10 is still in very broad/wide application in the sniper community. In that vein you might want to consider a US Optics ST-10 or the Pride-Fowler RR800-2. You can get all the options you want and spend as little as $1000. The US Optics are ruthlessly rugged combat scopes. At SHOT I saw their rep drive/hammer a nail with one of their scopes.

11

Thanks for all of the input so far. DocGKR what reticles would you recommned to go with the scopes you listed? Do you need a lighted reticle to work with a nvd?

12

Nightforce with an R2 reticle.

13

Nightforce NSX 5.5-22 with a mil dot recticle. Put a NVS 22 in front of it for night vision of you can afford it.
Pat

14

I have researched this issue a LOT recently. And really, Gutshot John and DocGKR have pretty well summarized the range of viable options. Doc has the well known, standard names, and John lists a couple of perhaps lesser known names that are quickly becoming known for putting out some seriously rugged and good glass (IOR Valdada, and Pride Fowler). Recently, I wanted to get something in the range of 2.5 to 10 or 12. I had the funds to get a Nightforce, a Leupold, or something in that price range (basically, my budget was anything up to about $1600). What I ended up with was an IOR 2.5-10x42, with FFP and illumination. Similar in price to the Leupold 2.5-8 and 3.5-10 scopes. But in my humble opinion, the IOR has equal if not slightly better glass, plus it has a better combination of options: it has a better magnification range, the mil to mil adjustments, and has FFP with illumination in the same scope. I also looked seriously at Pride Fowler and agree that they are a viable option. I really like their “rapid reticle” system, but ended up deciding I like the IOR’s MP-8 reticle even slightly better (the hash marks with a center dot).

I understand and share the desire to “economize” (esp. with our current economic situation), but after researching this issue almost to death, I realized that there simply IS no scope offering in the lower price ranges that is really going to cut it, if you are serious about wanting a great, reliable scope for a precision or tactical rifle. For a hunting or plinking rifle, there are some good scopes in the $300 to $800 range, they will do really well in broad daylight and at ranges up to 500-600 yards or so. But I do think Doc and John have pretty well listed the most reliable, available options for a “serious” precision/tactical scope.

15

I have never herd of the Pride Fowler scope, I looked into it and it seems right down my alley. I too am looking for a precision rifle scope to top a Remington 700 LTR. I didnt want to spend $1500 on an optic, I would have but this may answer my needs. Not to hijack the thread sorry to the OP.

16

Gang if you have ever shot thru the Schmidt and Benders PMII’s you will not find any other scope exceptable.

My 308 and my 338 both have S&B 's on them. my 300 WM will get one when the money is available. At 3000.00 a pop they are spendy but worth it especially at night or in low light conditions.

From a professional level the next scope I would recommend/shoot over is the Night Force, scopes again a very very good scope, just not a S&B.

Respectfully, DDW

17

You raise a key consideration in light transmission.

S&B is an awesome optic no doubt, and anyone who has looked through that glass should be “wowed” by what they see but it may be overstating the case a bit to say no other scope is acceptable. I seem to remember reading in passing that even S&B buys its glass from another manufacturer. I might have misread and I can’t think of the source so I may be wrong.

Good glass no matter what is expensive. One needs to be willing to spend some money for quality but not everyone needs an S&B. That said you can get pretty damn close to S&B quality without having to spend S&B money.

18

Another option you may want to think about is purchase the scope you want USED. That will get you the best glass money can buy at a lower cost. I bought a nightforce 3.5-15 mil ret used for 1100 shipped. Save yourself some money and still get top quality. Buy USED.

matt

19

Where would you get used scopes prefferably from a reputable person or company?

20

A great place to pick up long range shooting eq/rifles/scopes etc is on Sniper hide.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=cfrm

Just go to the optics section. Lots of great stuff there. The people there are very helpful too.

Matt