I have was interested the phantom holster from raven concealment because of its rave reviews, but I dont want to wait nearly 4mos or more to get one. I have also heard of good reviews from Personal Security Systems and Atomic Dog as well. But I have recently looked at the Silent thunder from Garrett Industries and the Minimum Tek-Lok OWB from Kolbesons holster. I am interested in these two holster companies as well because their holsters are cant and/or ride height adjustable.
I have a Smith & Wesson M&Pc pistol that I want to use for range work and also for concealed carry.
Any of you have any experience with any of these holsters and what would you recommend.
No experience with those choices, however I do have a couple from Comp-tac and not only are they excellent holsters but the wait time is usually under a week and they are great to deal with as a company.
Just received 2 Atomic Dog holsters (both G17) in the mail today - simply an outstanding product, and well worth the wait. Thickest kydex I’ve seen for this style of holster; excellent retention. I’m a convert. (Thanks very much for a great product Brian!)
That said, by sheer count I have mostly Comp Tac stuff - several Minotaurs, one CTAC, one OWB paddle/belt loop (does not hug the body, by design), many Tek-Lok mag carriers - all excellent quality, but I definitely believe that one of their main selling points is their very quick turnaround time. If you need something ASAP, such as for an upcoming class, I would say that you can’t miss with them.
(That said, and even though you asked about OWB, I would add that I’m not a big fan of their IWB clips - at the risk of flaming them, the angled “barbs” on the bottom edges of their clips are short and therefore prone to jumping off the bottom edges of my riggers belts during draws (or even when riding in cars) and thus don’t consistently hold the holster down IWB.)
I also have a Kaluban Cloak OWB/IWB convertible, which is also pretty good (but thinner kydex than the Atomic Dog, and a bit rougher angles and finish, particularly on the loops themselves). I bought it a while ago - hopefully their turnaround (and communication) has improved. I also have “other stuff” - Safariland ALS OWB, Blade-Tech Tek-Lok OWB, etc. (Yes, even an old Serpa somewhere.) The Tek-Lok stuff is generally quite useful for classes/range days, but is perhaps less useful for CCW, given the distance that the items end up from your belt.
Summary: if you’re in a rush, go with Comp-Tac or perhaps Blade-Tech. If you have a bit more time, I’d say go with Atomic Dog.
I agree that Comp-tac’s IWB clips are not ideal. Truthfully, I really don’t care for the Minotaur at all, but I do like their OWB stuff and have had good luck with it.
I thought Raven was all hype until I actually owned one. Bottom line is they are worth the wait. Period.
That being said several people who I hold in high regard have very favorable experiences with both Atomic dog and PSS, though I have no first hand experience with them. I’m very happy with RCS and it would have to be leaps and bounds ahead of them to get me to switch.
I just received a holster from Personal Security Systems. Wow, it is great. Retention is great and draw is very smooth.
I do own a Raven and it is nice, but my future holsters will come from Personal Security Systems. The OWB Pancake Attachments are a great design. I normally carry IWB and the Ultimate IWB Package is very nice. The thing just disappears.
With all of the praise for PSS I’m going to have to give them a shot for my next holster. You never know what you’ve been missing until you try something else.
I’m thinking something in an OWB model for a G19 and X300 as I’ve moved away from IWB carry.
I actually really like the idea of their M.A.P.S system to link stuff together. I have a bunch of RCS stuff (and more on order), but I’m not a big fan of the Eclipse style of stacking.
I may have to come up with a jury rig way of doing that myself on the RCS stuff.
Alabama Holster company is a little known company that makes some really nice simply holsters. Designed by two guys, one LEO and one Marine. I have a OWB and IWB on order for my M&P9c.
I’m sure that there are but several of them are just as deserving of the business and others are cheap knock offs. Determining which is which is the hardest part.
I like a number of kydex holster makes, and I started with Comp-Tac and Raven Concealment. I have since added Personal Security Systems to my kit. I cannot recommend these three companies highly enough, but I have personal contacts with Tom and Steve – so they have a special place in the scheme of things.
Josh Kolbeson is also a great guy, and while I prefer different designs for my personal gear; his construction, quality control and customer service is excellent.
The thickness of the Tek-Lok mechanism itself necessarily means that the holster or other item cannot hug the body as closely as a dedicated Raven, PSS, Atomic Dog or similar holster with molded-in loops. To be clear - the Tek-Lok is a great device, allowing you to attach (securely) and remove items (holsters, mag carriers, etc.) from a belt without removing/disconnecting the belt. For example, I have a US Grunt Gear padded belt that cannot take a holster without something like this system (or the drop-leg attachment system on, say, a Safariland 6004). Tek-Lok is perfect for situations like this, but it really doesn’t work if you’re trying to hug the body for CCW, due to its thickness, in my opinion.
As for cant, it’s very much user and handgun specific. The butt of the gun is often what produces the most concealment problems, so one would expect that the larger the gun (more magazine capacity, double-stack vs. single-stack, 45 vs 40 vs 9), the “bigger” the problem. Body shape and size also play a huge role: overall person size vs gun dimensions, shoulder width vs. hip width, physical fitness level/muffin-top/love handles, etc.
This makes it tough to generalize (but here goes…). For on-hip positions, some forward cant (say, 10 degrees) is probably a necessity for just about everyone, assuming a non-pocket sized, non-grip chopped pistol. I find that more cant works better for me (6’3", 265 lbs, relatively long torso), so I like the depth- and cant- adjustability of the Comp-Tac IWB holsters for CCW.
There is probably no substitute for trial and error here, unfortunately. That’s why so many people have “dead holster boxes” somewhere in their houses, full of the “errors” that failed the “trials”.
Do all the companies currently mentioned, Raven, PSS, and Atomic Dog make consistent and quality WML holsters?
I’ve tried a custom kydex maker in the past (generally well regarded maker), for a straight drop Glock17/TLR1 holster, and no matter how hard I tried to break the thing in, the gun would get slightly hung up on the draw. I received two of them. The first one was so tight that I couldn’t get the gun drawn even after pulling the gun (and my pants) to my armpit. I contacted the maker, he made it right, and it was replaced with a slightly less tight one (I got to keep both), but I don’t think that the draw is as smooth as the Bladetech holster I’m using right now. I ended up selling the newer, better one and put the non-functional one into the holster box.
Trying to diagnose this, I believe that the holster hugs my waist tight, which cants the gun into my side. As I try to draw it up and out, the holster is still slightly canted which causes a lot of friction and doesn’t allow a fast release. My belt still comes up a 1-2 inches with every draw.
I chalked it up to the fact that perhaps my body shape wasn’t optimal for this holster. I have a size 31" waist.
Any suggestions from those that have been through the various makers?
I can speak to PSS gear as that is what I run. Own only WML holsters (G17 + X300, G19 + WX150, and G20 + TLR1). I have ran the G17 and G20 holsters OWB only up to this point. The G17 I have ran in classes and in doing various drills. I certainly don’t go easy on it (as is the case with any of my gear). I can tell you it has been solid. Perfect amount of retention and a smooth draw.
Same goes for the G20 holster which holds my woods gun whenever I am hiking, etc. I actually took a 15ft or so fall down a bunch of gravel and landed in a river in my last trip with the holster on. The gun (and mags) stayed tight and in place. Though I ended up a little scraped up and taking a swim the holster was perfectly fine…draw/retention characteristics unaltered and the pistol still secure.
The G19 holster is my everyday carry (IWB). Admittedly, his one has had it pretty easy, but is still very comfortable to carry on a daily basis…again no complaints regarding draw.
As I said I can only speak to PSS, as that’s what I run. I would highly recommend checking them out, plus their wait times are pretty good (45days), especially considering some of the other makers.
I will say this as well regarding PSS: the owner, Steve, is a great dude and will make sure you are happy with your gear. If, on the off chance, you are unhappy with any aspect of your gear…he’ll have it taken care of and sent back within a day or two at most.
I just ordered a PSS holster with the IWB package based on the good info in this thread. I am going to try it both OWB and IWB.
I’ve only pocket carried a 642 or P3AT before, so now I am going to try the G23. Cheap holsters don’t work for CCW as I found out with the G23 already. Looking forward to trying out the PSS, and when my SIL visits at Christmas compare it to his Crossbreed.
Uwe1 - Different lights require different tricks in the molding and fitting processes to get that nice amount of retention. Ideally, you want little to no friction on the gun / light - just a nice “click” in and out of the holster that a firm draw will release.
The TLR series is particularly difficult - and took a lot of time, trial, and error to perfect how to achieve that level of retention with a smooth and fast draw. Our most recent rendition of weapon light bearing Holsters (round locking tab channel vs. squared locking tab channel) has made a noticeable improvement - though the prior version was still quite good in my opinion.
I figured that the different lights created unique challenges. The TLR is particularly wide and blocky.
I have been experimenting with the non-functional holster and there is a lot of friction while pushing the gun into the final retention and also shortly after drawing it. The holster appears to be dragging on the gun in multiple spots (the top edges of the slide, the ejection port, the locking nut of the WML, and various spots on the light). Reholstering literally requires wedging the WML into the holster, to widen the mouth, and pushing the gun in, hard. I was able to improve the tension a good amount by softening it up with a hair dryer, but I’m still not very satisfied with the results.
My current kydex holster experience is sparse. Besides the aforementioned custom kydex holster, I have a standard Bladetech for the G17 and a Level 2 for G17/TLR that I cut the retention off of. Both have functioned well for me. The WML version is mounted with the DOH attachment, on my BFG padded belt for training courses. I had a couple serpas when I first started shooting. They’re now in the holster box.
I need a quality WML holster for dedicated pistol courses when I want to go slick. Some classes require a OWB holster. Would you recommend going with the standard belt attachments for something like the PSS WML holster? I have no intention of concealing a G17/TLR1. I’m 5’7", 140-ish, size 31 waist pants, and normally CCW a G26 in my pocket.
I have tried all the kydex holster makers mentioned in this thread and more.
The only ones I will purchase from in the future are Personal Security Systems and Comp-Tac, depending on my particular needs.
All of the previously mentioned holsters were of good to excellent quality but the difference to me is in the service and integrity of each maker. These are the factors that affect my decision on future purchases.