I did a “test” a while back where I shot two ammo brands into milk jugs filled with water at 7 yards. Then I recovered the bullets to see the deformity. Nothing scientific, just kind of curious. These are .45 self defense loads, one a Hornady TAP and the other Federal “Personal Defense.”
I found the result quite interesting, but I’m not sure what to make of it. The TAP bullet peeled back but generally retained its weight. The Federal bullet totally peeled back and the jacket separated.
So the question I have is, which is better? Is it the TAP because it retains its mass and delivers more power? Or is it the Federal because it opens up more and causes a bigger cavity and perhaps more damage?
I understand you’d like an answer but one of the nice things about this site is that people who aren’t qualified to give an answer based on real data, generally don’t. On other sites you’d likely get a lot of BS from people who just want to sound authoritive even if they don’t know what they’re talking about.
Sometimes what’s not said can be an answer too. IE: there’s better ammo choices in that caliber than either of those (but that’s not what you asked).
I didn’t articulate my question very well, so let me try again…oh, and thanks for replying.
My question isn’t necessarily about these two specific brands, it was about what those bullets did. That is, and this is a simplification, but a bullet can either stay together when it enters a ballistics medium (perhaps a person), or it can break apart. And also, perhaps a second part to staying together or breaking apart, it can expand greatly or retain its original diamater.
It would seem to me that expanding past its original diameter would be preferable for a bullet, but what about breaking up and becoming almost like shrapnel? Seems like that would be good, but perhaps not. I don’t know.
So ignore the brands for a moment and think generic. Seems like I got the 2 results you might expect to see from any bullet. Which would you rather have your bullet do?
And maybe I should infer that the answer is neither, that there are more options for your bullet once it hits its target.
IMHO… I would stay with the round that retains some weight. Why… in Law Enforcement, where unfortunatley we sometimes do have to shoot real people instead of milk jugs or ballistic gellatin we have found the following. Crooks wear clothing, often heavy clothing because most shootings occur at night when it is cold. The bullets that fragment to easily, have often lost most of their criminal rehabilitation potential just getting through all of that inprovised body armor. A good bullet that holds together enough to get through and will still mushroom does the job.
Again… shot placement is everything… a well placed rifle round is better… and a well placed shotgun slug is final.
Service caliber handgun bullets generally only disrupt tissue by directly contacting and crushing it. If service caliber handgun bullets fragment, wound severity is generally decreased, as the amount of tissue crushed is reduced. For service caliber handguns, it is ideal if the bullets stay intact and retain all their weight.
It is my understanding that Remington’s and Federal’s .357 Magnum 125 grain semi jacketed hollow points gained their deadly reputation due to the fact that they both penetrated deeply and fragmented to a significant degree. I cannot discount the image of lead and copper fragments severing nerves, arteries, veins, and even tearing into organs like lungs, heart, liver, spleen etc. spreading the wealth beyond the primary wound channel.
Well, rather than relying on internet myth, let’s look at some facts. The CHP used a variety of .357 Mag loads, depending upon what was available via the state contract. According to the published CHP test data, the .357 Magnum load used immediately prior to the CHP transition to .40 S&W was the Remington 125 gr JHP with an ave. MV of 1450 f/s from their duty revolvers–CHP has continued to report greater OIS incident success with their non-fragmenting .40 S&W 180 gr JHP’s than with the .357 Magnum 125 gr JHP’s they previously issued…
What I carry is the Speer Gold Dot 165gr. Carry that on my service gun AND all my other personal ones. I was fortunate enough to be invited to a ballistic gellatin shoot several months ago… This is what the Gold Dot 165gr did through several layers of denim. Mind you, that is a quarter next to the bullet.
Amateur Opinion
Aparently Federal personal defense rounds are not equivalent to Federal LE. I just ordered 500 rounds of Federal LE Tactical HST 230gr +P .45ACP and 124gr +P 9mm based on this description from the ATK website.
“Tactical® HST®
The next generation in high performance duty ammunition. HST® offers consistent expansion and optimum penetration for terminal performance. A specially designed hollow-point tip won’t plug while passing through a variety of barriers and this bullet holds its jacket in the toughest conditions. HST is engineered to provide 100% weight retention through most barriers and impressive expansion.”
