I aspire to be more prepared and carry concealed more frequently.
However I find that I struggle to try and carry my airweights. It just seems a tiny bit too large for pocket carry.
I live at the beach and wear lightweight clothing and shorts alot. I am looking at the Kahr PM9 and P380 (and Diamondback). The p380 seems just small enough to fit in a back pocket without sticking out, and light enough not to be a problem.
I was thinking “if you could just get a +p .380 it might be enough”, I found the Buffalo Bore .380 that produces around 1100fps, that is more powerful than the average .38spl! http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=128
Trying to envision what threats we may face is tough, I guess if we knew we were going to be in a life or death situation on a particular day we would just stay home. Its not uncommon for Presciption drug seekers to surface in our office, and I’ve had to arrest one in the past.
Bank robbers have fled just outside my office dropping $100 bills, friends have had things thrown at them while biking and confrontations arise. I consider these lower threats than some people that are doing traffic stops or drug raids. I would go for something better if I knew that I had
Perhaps naiive thinking, but I don’t see many folks were I frequent in thick jackets or leather coats that would hinder the rounds penetration. I feel I am in a lower risk environment, but would still like to have something. I have researched holsters and carry options to death, but just can’t find anything that I am going to realistically wear daily in the summer months. I’m also spending some time on my tri bike on some back roads, the .380 seems easy to stick in a pouch.
I am thinking if I get the PM9, I will find it just a bit big for “easy” carry.
I realize alot of people on this forum may have a .380 as backup, but perceive that you guys face a different threat level than I expect.
So, is the .380 +p really that bad?
I think you are missing the point of “back up”. They carry them because they are smaller and still work, and they can still carry something bigger, if they didnt they would not carry them. If you cant carry something bigger you are stuck with it. Would you want to get shot with a .380?
Shivan’s response is about where I’m at, on .380. If I’m in a situation where I can have a CCW–anything at all–I’m going to use at least 9mm.
On the OP’s other comments about .380:
Agree, .380 is better better than nothing. However, it’s rarely the case that “nothing” is your only alternative. There are not a LOT of small, reliable 9mm’s for CCW out there, but there are a few. Another improved alternative could be a .38sp in a S&W or Ruger lightweight, like the LCR.
if you can conceal a .380, you can conceal a 9mm. if your clothes are so light and thin and skimpy that you cannot conceal a 9, you’re not going to be able to conceal a .380 either. if your pockets are so thick that you can conceal a .380, you surely cannot be too lightly dressed- what about shirt-tucked IWB? what about a light weight jacket?
i mean, these guys did fine. Bren Ten? where?
the .380 is like a short putt, and we all know short putts usually dont go in.
A .380, while far from the ideal handgun, is vastly superior to fingernails should you be faced with an assault. Having had some experience dealing with people who have deadly weapons while I had nothing but fingernails, I can assure you that I’d pick the .380 any day over fingernails.
I personally carry an LCP when I’m in the gym, along with a Cold Steel Braveheart fixed blade. Neither are barnstorming pieces of tactical hardware, but it’s better than nothing…and when you’re in a pair of track pants running on a treadmill “nothing” is the alternative.
The biggest danger of the little .380 guns is that people have a tendency to get lazy and carry the LCP in the pocket and nothing else even when they can pack a real gun. I’m generally not in danger of that since, as I said, I have some experience with being under-armed when in contact with bad people…but for many others it’s a temptation. Most people most of the time can pack a bigger gun than they think if they simply invest in high quality carry gear and make a couple of small adjustments to their mode of dress. Those things should be pursued FIRST, and something like the LCP should be reserved as a carry gun of last resort.
Actually if you watch the series it’s pretty easy to tell when he’s wearing his Bren and when he isn’t. It never did conceal all that well, even with the sometimes goofy MC-hammer jackets.
Short answer: It all depends upon shot placement, and speed of follow-up shots as necessary.
Longer answer: There are enough compact, concealable, durable, reliable, and accurate 9mm choices available these days to render the .380 more or less a historical, but obscelescent choice, in my opinion (unless you’re in a location which precludes use/ownership of a 9mm). In addition, at least in my neck of the woods, .380 ammunition seems to be scarcer and more expensive than 9mm, and the guns less durable and reliable-unless you move up to something like a CZ83 or a Beretta 84/85, which for all practical purposes are about the size of a …Glock 19.
I’ve had, appreciated, and enjoyed .380 and 9 X 18 Makarov pistols; however, I choose 9mm/.38 Special +P as my cartridge platform minimum for carry.
Well if the guy at costco only had his back up he would be alive. After that incident I dont think pushing the limits on what you can conceal is the best policy.
Given that we still don’t know exactly what happened, what the guy was carrying, or how he was carrying it, doesn’t it seem a bit premature to make those kind of statements?
After that incident I dont think pushing the limits on what you can conceal is the best policy.
I can easily conceal three handguns on my person anyplace that doesn’t have a metal detector. It’s all about the carry gear you use and the mode of dress you select.
Well if the guy at costco only had his back up he would be alive. After that incident I dont think pushing the limits on what you can conceal is the best policy.
Seriously, that incident got me thinking about what “concealed” really should be. First I’m thinking about an M&P40, now I want a Kahr P40.
Back to the topic, if you’re going to pocket carry, that’s what 380 and 32 were designed for. Otherwise it’s best to move up a caliber.
People choose calibers and concealment garments poorly, all the time.
How is it that I can conceal a full size railed 1911 under simple shirt if I like?
In a recent basic handgun class, JSantoro was concealing an M&P via appendix carry:
Sure he was wearing a heavier over shirt, but the concept is the same as any Tommy Bahama silk shirt would be with some linen shorts and a sturdy belt.
Good points on .380, I understand why it’s appealing in certain cases. The main appeal for me of the .380, when I had an LCP, was weight. With the .380 and choices like the LCP, you could get a CCW that weighed around 9oz if I recall correctly. Whereas my Kahr PM9, one of the lightest subcompact 9mm’s, is 14oz. But I’ve decided to live with the weight, even when I go running.
A question on your workout scenario: Have you tried something like a Smart Carry? Seems to work for me, with the Kahr PM9, when I run. I am 5’11", medium build. I think a person could possibly even conceal comfortably something like a G26 or an M&P 9c, although I really prefer the lightweight Kahr to my M&P 9c.
that shirt isn’t any tighter than the shirts i wear over my g17, but i’m not overly paranoid about printing. a little larger, and you’re right- pretty much no chance of that either.
i used to pack a USP45 full size to school every day, many moons ago… sitting in a classroom surrounded by liberals, standing up and sitting down to go get a drink or use the facilities, and never getting picked. and at 5’8", i am not a large man. back then, my max weight was around 155lbs (i’m closer to 175, these days).
you just have to put out a little effort. work with it. try stuff. find what works. then, importantly, train from that setup.
For belt carry a quality belt and holster are a must. You don’t need to spend a ton on a belt but it needs to be wide enough and thick enough. No dress belts. That drives me crazy. I like 1.5" belts by Boston leather well made and affordable.
Have you looked at the Kel Tec 9mm guns. I think it is the PT9 it holds seven plus one. I have a few friends who carry them. I’ve not shot one myself. I’ve had two Kahr pistols an MK9 and an MK40. I sold them both because neither of mine were relialible. I know other folks have had good luck with them.
Carry the larges caliber gun you can and carry it every day. I sometimes get frusterated with my G27 but I know I have a serious gun and round to defend my family with. I also carry at least one reload.
Not sure what this has to do with caliber selection, and concealment options therein, but please take it to another thread…
For all we know the guy pulled out his pistol and waived it at the clerk, the cameras, and the police. The caliber and garments worn would have made no difference at all.
I went through something similure several years ago looking for a pistol to carry in a a non-permissive enviroment. At the time I looked at all of the .380’s on the market in 1999, the Kahr line and the SIG 239. In the end I choose a Kahr P-9. Since then I have carried it and shot several thousand rounds through it with no complaints. i choose the Kahr over all the .380’s because it was a. 9mm vs. .380; b. the same size as a SIG 230/232 or Walther PPS and c. had good sights readily availible (Heinie Straight 8’s).
Since then I have also owned a PM-9 (now owned by trio) I parted with it because it was only slightly smaller than the P-9 and i percieved more negatives then positives from that slight reduction in size.
However I find that I struggle to try and carry my airweights. It just seems a tiny bit too large for pocket carry.
For me, at least, the PM-9 fails as a pocket gun. The slide catches on my pockets during the draw and I can always percieve the out line. In contrast my larger Colt Agent (6 shot .38) conceals better in a Mika holster and has a smooth presentation from the draw in the pocket.
If you want a new pistol, by all means go for it, but I would look at wardrobe and carry gear changes first.
I’d rather (and do) carry a j frame with .38spl +p gold dots or Corbon DPX then a .380 when wearing clothes that wouldn’t let me properly conceal my full size gun. In my case this is t-shirt and shorts type dress
I either pocket carry in a Mika holster or IWB Appendix carry in a custom RKBA Leather holster.
The RKBA holster was spec’d out by me to be as “deep concealment” as it reasonably could be. I could be wearing a ‘wife beater’ tanktop and not print. Pocket carrying in a proper pocket holster (provided you have deep enough pockets) is a
“print free” way of carrying too
Don’t forget. Your object when carrying a gun concealed is not to make it invisible.
You just don’t want to look like you are carrying a gun. You can carry just about any gun in such a way that it is invisible, but you can’t get to it quickly or easily.
I live in TN, right now it is 97 degrees out and the heat index is 107.
I carry concealed in weather like this all summer. Generally a G19. It is a matter of finding a holster/gun/dress combo that fits your body.
Although, I would prefer something larger, if you truly can’t carry anything else, it is better than nothing.
