I’ve run my 16" DSA FAL for many years and am sold on the platform. Thus far I’ve only used the iron sights so I don’t really notice the accuracy decrement. Due largely to the endorsment from someone on this site, I just ordered the DSA scope mount for it. I’ve been experimenting with the AR10 platform for about a year now. I’ve had both 18" and 16" Noveske N6s as well as 16" Armalite chrome lined AR10. All have ran flawlessly, though I will admit, I haven’t run the N6s hard by any means. Sold the Armalite when my N6s came in. Now I’m replacing the 18" N6 with a another Armalite 16" CL. The 16" N6 does everything I need without the extra weight/length of the 18".
As this thread evolves a couple of thoughts come to mind.
I based my response predicated on how your initial question was formatted.
I own FAL’s, Sage EBR and AR10.
imo, FAL’s do not have the consistant accuracy of an AR10 & Sage EBR.
M1A (and it’s hybrids etc.) & FALs are heavier (piston components etc.)
imo, If your lugging it around all day/night patrolling/hunting you will feel the difference. I do.
If your just pulling up your rig unloading KIT and shooting it’s not an consideration.
My AR10 (14.5") weighed in @ 8.25 lbs. w/ empty mag (sans ammo, scope, scope mount, etc.) imo, Acceptable within Battle Rifle specs.
SR25 EM @ approx. 5K is excellent but cost prohibitive by your own perimeters.
imo, define your needs as was previously mentioned.
Think i’m going to go with a FAL for now… I see used DSA for pretty reasonable prices… And mags are are reasonable too… Hell for what I want to spend could probally pick up 2… I really would like a original AR-10 but don’t want to have to give up my first born or soul to get one… What i think would be cool is if someone would bring back a copy of a Armalite AR-16… Ever sense I read The Black Rifle I’ve been fascinated with the weapons that the original Armalite company produced… Way ahead of there time… Thanks again all for the great info!!!
Carl
The two 7.62x51mm AR systems that I would currently feel comfortable using in GP, non-dedicated DMR/sniper roles are the LaRue OBR and KAC SR25 EM–probably topped with one of the new 1-8x optics.
When you build several thousand government 7.62mm guns you learn a thing or two…
Yes our guns are expensive, we are trying to lower the price as best as we can, and this years guns are 100x the guns where of old, and cheaper than the last few years.
The SR-25 mag is the 7.62mm standard these day, as its in Military usage.
So the M9 mag is the standard 9mm pistol mag? I would argue that millions of G17/G19/G26 users would beg to differ. Hipower and CZ75 users too. I’m sure you can see where this assertion can be challenged with common analogous comparisons?
Aren’t your former comrades in arms still using the AR-10? Last we talked, specifically on that subject, they were still fielding them, but that may have been a year ago+. I know that DOS uses them, but that’s not military.
Uk uses both SR-25 and now LMT .308 - both SR-25 Mag, and Hk417
Italy - SR-25 and Hk417
Canada - SR-25, AR10, Hk417
Australia - SR-25
US Mil - SR-25
DOS - SR-25
DOE - SR-25
My point being, is the SR-25 mag is pretty much the accepted standard for a current .308 gun.
I don’t understand why anyone would make a non standard mag is in this system
Gosh, can’t the Canucks get any love…
That’s a big budget. I just built, if you count snappinig the upper half to the lower half together, an Armalite AR10 for $1010. Add to this the cost of 10 magazines at $275. I still have to get a scope and mount though. And yes, the upper does have a chrome lined barrel. I’m sure my setup isn’t the top of the line best, but it’s going to be pretty accurate. Armalite has been making AR10’s for a while now, so I’m expecting it to be reliable too. Of course, this is just an example. You may be able to get a quality FAL for the same or less. My point is that you don’t have to spend up to $3000 to get it done. Good luck and be sure to post pictures of your new baby.
Point noted, but up until recently, your mag (KAC) has been the only one available magazine without a spotty reputation. Approaching one bill a copy, most of the most of the DPMS crowd that flock to that mag pattern have no intestinal fortitude for such things.
As an HK93 lover, I know a thing or two about paying for mags, but many wouldn’t give the rifle a second look soley because of the price of mags. You hear alot of “If they made one that took AR mags”. Geeesh, then it wouldn’t be an HK93! Sig catered to that calling, and the purists hate them for it.:rolleyes:
BTW, that SR25 EM is bad ass. One of those would justify it’s way into my collection if I didn’t live where I do.
You know, you’re right. “Perception is reality” and the SR-25 pattern rules the roost for .308 AR mags adoption.
I don’t understand why anyone would make a non standard mag in this system
I have addressed this concern and desire to every level of person at ArmaLite, even talking to Westrom at SHOT two or three years ago, and they are being completely oblivious to it. I told them, and even had a bunch of other AR-10 owners tell them via email, that if they made a whole separate line of lowers that still worked with the existing AR-10 uppers but took “SR-25” mags, we would buy the new guns just to support a forward thinking approach.
Instead, they tackled the AR-24 pistol project and tried to bring another 7.62x39 AR to market – even though most of the other ones have failed miserably. :(:(:(
A quick question on the AR-10s. Before the ban ended their barrels (at least what wasn’t under the handguard) was medium or heavy. Now, it appears that the standard CL barrel is a “pencil barrel.” I think that Armalite says to expect accuracy of 1.5-2 MOA. What are the real world specs?
LMT & Larue have a great reputation. Time will tell how they preform.
Any further info on the LMT’s release date?
In reality, it depends on the ammo and the shooter. The gun is easily capable of 2 MOA using a magnified optic and shooting for accuracy with a sling in prone, or on a bench with bags.
I’ve shot some ammo in my AR-10’s that simply would not group for shit, but the gun did using other ammo.
I’d say those specs are easily achievable in any ArmaLite AR-10, easily.
I’m partial to the Armalite pattern rifles. I’ve got a slew of 20 and 25rd mags and got all of them for about $30 a piece during their sales. I don’t see how the magazines are an issue since they are affordable reliable, and available. Until Magpul came out with a KAC pattern mag you couldn’t get a reliable 20rd mag for the same price for the other platforms. The DPMS guns are typical DPMS; low quallity. I’m sure the LaRue and SR-25s are great rifles (man I want an M110, but would probably never be able to buy one at current prices. If I saved up that much I’d probably just save a bit more and get a transferrable M16/RDIAS) but for a small fraction of the price I’ve gotten excellent accuracy and reliability from my AR10. If I were rich, I’d definitely have a KAC or two but that doesn’t mean I would shy away from the AR10.
Hoplo, that’s a rock solid setup right there. NF Scopes are quickly proving their rugged construction in battle. The glass is good too. NF is personally the company I turn to currently for my scopes
I may try an S&B Short Dot on my new Knight’s Armament MK11 Carbine tho just for shits and giggles. As far as weapons platforms, Noveske gets the job done as the heart of an aacurate platform is its barrel. LMT would be first on my list if price and availability were an issue. If not,check out the Knights Armament SR25EM or MK11
Copy.
Right on.
I’m in agreement re: Knight’s SR 25 EM but, SR 25 EM is not available in People’s Socialist Republic of Kalifornication (being such an evil rifle & all.)
I have a LEA working on that solution etc.
Noveske’s N6 AR10 (DI) rocks and usually people have not actually owned or shot one but rather embellish/prevaricate what they have heard/experienced from Armalite & GEN 1 mag problems.
It eats up all the 168 & 175 I shove into it.
Checkmate rectified the problem w/ gen 11 mags as has been pointed out several times. Those mags are robust, plentyfull, reasonable priced and dependable.
MY N6 gives me 1 to 1.5 MOA which is superior to my FALs. Sage EBR w/ 18" Krieger built by SEI has the accuracy but a heavy beast & not pragmatic to lug around on PSD type work.
NF has performed well for me as I own several of their optics.
I can only surmise that they will follow suite and produce a 1X6 / 1X8 etc. scope soon. Makes sense and would be the HEAT.
I’m waiting to T&E that Leupy 1 X 8 optic as well looks viable sans the weight issue etc. (But good glass is heavy & that variable range does need more lens elements/glass to function)
I heard via a mutual friend regarding your SR 25 EM.
“Good on Ya” even if it costs’ you a Kidney !
I’m going to purchase a KAC SR 25 Carbine as funds allow. If it’s anywhere near as good as my IWS E3, it’s sure to be a winner.
I cannot justify 6k for a gun that is basically an upsized SR15 which I was very ok with paying 2k for. I dont feel as though Id get 4k worth more of gun…I was strongly hoping it would be in the 3-4k range. 6k, and it doesnt even come with the Super Tap brake?
That IS fucking gorgeous, there is no doubt. I just can’t see 5K for it. I’m the LAST thing from cheap, but damn.
ETA: if an employer or gov were paying for it, I’ll take two.
What makes it better then the Larue OBR?