Where to start?

Training Training and Tactics
1

Hey all,

I need advice on where to start WRT private training options for my wife and I, having never attended a private course.

As background, I’m a graduate of CITP at FLETC. My wife and I have received basic Air Force CATM instruction in rifle and pistol, and we’ve both attended our respective pre-deployment training.

However, for personal development we’d like to start layering our training from the ground up, and make firearms training routine. I’d like to start with pistol fundamentals, focusing on active shooter and home defense. We have two 9mm pistols, and I intend to purchase a .45 M&P next for myself, followed by an 870 or two, and then carbines mid-2013.

I’m a bit lost however, with the number of high-level training groups such as Vickers, Costa, Redback One, Hayley. With all the available training opportunities, where should we start? Is it better to pick one and follow a single company/instructor, or to branch out and try a few?

I’d like attend a class, and come away from it enabled with training paradigms I can practice and hone even after the class. This can include dry-firing, range-time and blue gun sets and exercises.

Any help is appreciated.

V/r,
-Mike

Post-Script: It was recommended I narrow my focus. Neither my wife or I are first-responders or front-line troops. The scenarios for which we are training are almost exclusively reactionary. For me professionally, this means a close-quarter confrontation during an interview. Outside of the work-place, for both of us it means the possibility of an active shooter or assailant.

2

Would you want to attend freshman year at 7 different universities or get a PhD from Harvard?

Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.

3

87seph,

Where are you located?

I’ve found that the logistics cost of taking a class are often as much as or more than the tuition for a course.

If you and your wife have deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan you may want to look at Gunsite’s A&I Vets 250 or 223 course held each year which is free to those that qualify.

4

I’m mystified by all the acronyms. What is WRT?

5

Treehopr, we’re near DC. We can travel, but I think AZ is a bit too far from us. I will have family in Houston come the new year though, so that may open other options.

Failure2Stop, good point. Though, isn’t the current suggestion to diversify your undergrad, grad, and post-grad schools? J/K

Suwannee Tim, “with regards to”.

-Mike

6

Look into Academi located in Moyock, NC. (Formerly Blackwater). I train there. They have many different courses available and it’s close to you for the most part. Website: www.academi.com

7

Start here:

http://pistol-training.com/

http://pistol-training.com/drills

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?act=idx

Buy DvDs.

Here:
http://www.brianenos.com/store/dvd.matt.html

http://gunsite.com/store/page8.html

http://www.thunderranchinc.com/store.html

http://store.magpul.com/product/DYN004/176

http://www.vikingtactics.com/dvds_pistol1.html

Buy many. Watch many. Buy dummy rounds: http://www.amazon.com/ST-Action-Pro-Trainer-Rounds/dp/B004KZ357G

Practice techniques. Practice more. Video yourself doing drills, presentations, live fire etc. Critique. Practice more. Practice again. If your wife is going to actively participate, fantastic. Have her critique you vs what you have learned. Be careful critiquing her. Positive reinforcement works for females. Negative reinforcement, not so much.

Always start with the basics. Any DvD from the above links that says Basics or Fundamentals is where you want to start. There are literally hundreds of DVDs out there, some…not so good.

Find an IDPA match here: http://www.idpa.com/clublist.asp?pick=VA

Go with wife. Shoot qualifier. Realize how badly you suck. Sucking is not negative. Sucking is an indication of how well (or poorly) you perform. Practice more.

Buy more advanced videos. Watch. Practice. Critique. Go to next IDPA match, suck less.

Buy reloading press. Wonder what to do with drawer full of holsters and mag carriers you bought but realized suck. Foist on to new IDPA shooters at club. Smile smugly.

Offer UPS guy case of beer, in case he is harboring thoughts of burning down your house so he doesn’t have to lug thousands and thousands of bullets and cases and primer and powder to your door.

Buy VERY advanced videos. Watch. Practice. Critique. Repeat. Go to next IDPA match. Suck even less. Easily trounce elderly women and small children.

Register for class from some one reputable. A BASICS class. Go to forums. Make 112 posts asking “What gear for XYZ Class?” Ignore forum advice. Get fancy drop leg rig in from man in brown truck. Wear around house for three days. Model in front of mirror. Wonder how much blood loss to testicles before they fall off. Go to class. Observe people wearing drop leg rigs. Measure Factor 1) Students with drop leg rigs and Factor 2) Students with drop leg rigs A-Zone hits. Graph. Throw away drop leg rig.

Register for Pat Rogers class. Buy Serpa “cause they are cheap and my RCS is getting beat-up” Get castigated by Pat. Wear dunce hat.

Congratulations, you have just completed your first step. Repeat as above for rifles, shotguns.

8

I would start with a Tier One instructor that will give you the personal time at a training course to give you “the direction & goals” in an overall plan for your training as well as do an excellent job training for the particular course you are signed up at the time. As it seems you are looking for some overall direction to become a Renaissance Shooter;)

I’ve heard of this guy named Jack Leuba not sure what the name of his company is you might do a search or google him;), but he is hands down the most articulate guy on explaining tactical shooting that I have come across and has the real world experience to back it up.

9

Echo Valley Training Center, outside of Winchester, VA has a lot of good instructors (as well as some less impressive) that hold weekend courses.

I haven’t trained with all of them but of the ones I have I would recommend Jason Falla of Redback One (also has classes in MD for 2013) and JD Potynsky of Northern Red. Very structured programs with a lot of emphasis on solid fundamentals and weapons manipulation.

If you find your way down to Houston, look up Paul Howe in Nacogdoches, TX.

10

Pat Rogers taught an EAG Basic Carbine Class there in September. Given its proximity to his home NOVA, you may see him there again. Should you select him for training, watch his DVDs. They will get you up on the learning curve.

Very well put!:agree:

Since Pat can’t post, I’ll pass along his recommendation:

You might want to recommend John Murphy at FPF training- he is very GTG

11

You should be able to find anything you need within about 3 hours of DC, so that shouldn’t be an issue.

Larry Vickers is a great choice, and he teaches a few classes near Pittsburgh.

12

87seph,

I’m in the same area as you. There are a bunch of us that shoot on a regular basis both rifle & pistol. Combination of Federal LEO’s, former military, and competition shooters.

I’ll send you a PM about shooting sometime. At least you can meet a bunch of people and they can start giving you info on local training. FWIW, I’m waiting for F2S 2013 schedule to come out, having just missed his class in October due to a new addition to my family.

13

Gents,

Thank you for the advice. I’ll be looking into my local options, especially the ones you’ve mentioned, and start comparing/contrasting philosophies and accessibility. There’s alot of wisdom with sticking with one, and following it all the way forward.

Rage Ape, thank you for adding “castigate” to my vocabulary. This will sit beside inimical, recreant, and tonsorial.

V/r,
-Mike

14

I’d stay away from Gunsite when there are much better options there. Echo Valley does host some top trainers occasionally. Failure 2 Stop has a training company that is in the area sometimes and teaches in NC a lot. Decorated combat vet is someone worth learning from. Jack is a good guy.

General consensus “Tier One”(since we love this designation:D) trainers(in no order):

LAV-former Delta

TigerSwan-founded, staffed, and run by former Delta’s; exceptional facilities

Northern Red-J.D. Potynsky-I think former Green Beret.

Kyle DeFoor-former SEAL

Trident Concepts(Jeff Gonzalez)-former SEAL

Paul Howe-former Delta

Dave Harrington-former Delta

EAG Tactical-(Pat Rogers)-former Marine-many here train with

Viking Tactics-(Kyle Lamb)-former Army SF

Redback One-(Jason Falla)-former Austrailian SF

Greygroup.com is good place to start. They do scheduling for several on the list.

Firearms training is no place to be budget minded or to settle. You do not have to pick and stick with a trainer. All of the above have similar training with their own take on things. If you train with any one of them, you can have confidence in your abilities. Training with any of the above is recognized by the others as excellent.

15

Excellent summary! Thank you.

For those who have taken these classes, are there certain schools/instructors who work and focus on how to react to the civilian ambush, versus direct action such as a raid? I was taught and trained not to refer to these situations are offensive vs defensive. Even if your adversary hits first, you need to be offensively minded to succeed.

Or does that not even come into play at the ground level of training? Fundamentals are fundamentals essentially? Smooth trigger pull, focus on your front site post, thumbs forward, stay in the fight.

V/r,
-Mike

16

These topics will not be specifically covered unless you can get into a for .mil class only. Top quality instructors always have good advice if you ask about a subject.