Where should I move???? (leaving liberal-fornia)

General General Discussion
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Everyone mentioning the MT, UT, ID, WY, CO can you recommend specific areas for me to look at the real estate markets?

The insane thing of living in America in 2019, is that traditoinally solid red states are on the verge of swinging (TX, AZ, FL, MT) or have already switched to solid blue because of the cities being filled with liberals fleeing high taxes and real estate prices. I am aware that CO and OR have gone mad with blue, but isnt that primarily located in the cities? I am trying to move into the small towns or complete rural country side. I really wouldnt mind driving an hour or two, once a month to stock up at a costco in the city. In AZ I was looking at half too 10 acre properties. obvisouly I would like 500 acres to shoot on or whatever but cost becomes an issue with that. Ideally I’d like the pines and also like being near streams or lakes.

22

Stay away from Boise and the Sun Valley/Ketchum area in Idaho. That is of course if you want to avoid the California types.

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Middle or East Tennesse. We got four seasons, mountains, lots of trees and water. The cost of living is very low, lots of jobs and housing and property are very affordable. And yes, we like guns and God here.

24

I’m stuck in CA for the time-being as well. I bought a house near Reno to which I will attempt to escape eventually. The locals I talk to there have lamented that Californians moving to the area are quickly destroying the political landscape and turning the state blue. And quickly. Really sinks my heart when I think about it. By the time I move there (couple years probably), it’ll be CA-lite. Ugh… I hope not.

25

Montana is kind of two states in one. And while we’re purple, our Democrats tend to be more conservative, more pro-gun, more libertarian than Republicans from, say, New York. A lot of the state’s Democratic party has ties to the state’s old miners unions, so Democratic Montanans tend to come from farms, ranches, and mining families. Hence Montana’s purple-ishness.

You have, broadly speaking, Western Montana and Eastern Montana.

Western Montana has grizzly bears, mountains, forests, higher population density, more liberals (old school blue collar liberals, Caliradian yuppies, tree huggers, hippies, &c.), milder summers and winters.
Eastern Montana has rattlesnakes, is fairly flat, fairly open, you can measure the distance between houses in miles (outside of Great Falls and Billings), has harsher winters, and hotter and more humid summers.

26

Two more places to look in Az would be Williams and Payson area. Both are up in the mountains and forrests. They do get some snow in the winter but nothing like what the northern states get. Williams is around 6k feet elevation and Payson is around 5k feet.

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The leftists and most idiots are in the cities, but the cities dominate population and state politics, so all the @#$# state laws are written by those people. You would probably really like the people in rural CA, OR, WA and maybe CO, but the laws aren’t written by those people.

It’s not just guns either - building permits, taxes, business licenses, water rights, whether you can own a wood stove, etc.

ID - Coeur d’Alene area and north from there. Sandpoint is beautiful. Not sure about the job options.

CO - in the mountains or on the western slope. Grand Junction is the biggest city. Just avoid the front range.

WY - Cheyenne isn’t much but it’s the most civilized city in WY and close to CO cities for serious shopping or medical care, etc. Laramie is small and provincial, go west from there and it’s lots worse. Jackson is Hollywood yuppieville. I don’t know Casper or Gillette at all.

UT - it seems like the farther you get from SLC proper, either north or south, the better things are, but I’m still not impressed.

MT - I like Missoula as a town, but it’s probably the most liberal town in MT. Whitefish is an interesting small town but you’re looking at some real winter there.

If you want to play Russian roulette with state politics, the Blue Mountains area of Oregon is nice and remote, and Spokane WA is OK especially if you stay out of the city itself. Of course for Spokane you could just commute 10 minutes farther and be in Idaho.

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My place is 15 minutes outside of Laramie up against the snowy range mountains. Laramie has most of the city comforts (it is a college town) but just 5 minutes in any direction from town and you would swear you are in the middle of nowhere. Elk, antelope and wild horses are common in my area. Mule deer as well. While I am not trying to convince you to go there, it does have its advantages worth exploring. The wind frankly is the biggest drawback. Otherwise, 2000 yard range nearby, world class hunting and fishing. A ski and snowmobile resort is 20 minutes away from me. I have a 1000 yard range out the back…

Edited to add… 45 minutes east gets you to Cheyenne. 45 minutes south gets you to Ft. Collins CO. 2 hours south is Denver. Really though, Ft Collins has everything a city needs down to Costco and Sam’s Club. Laramie also has the only class 3 dealer in the state. Old German guy has a PhD in engineering and loves guns… and the fatherland. Great machinist too. His name is Dieter if you get there. You can have suppressors there!

29

Western South Dakota, Rapid City area, only place I’ve lived that I’d move back to…
If I didn’t need to work Wyoming would be my first choice.

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I lived in Great Falls, MT for a while. I loved the state, but not that city. Bozemen was great, though. Be prepared for lots of driving to really get anywhere outside of where you live, and some pretty harsh winters to get used to (especially if you’re accustomed to CA weather). Missoula was a nice town as well, and a bit closer to Glacier National Park if that’s important to you.

I spent a lot of time in Cheyanne Wyoming as well, and it seemed great. It’s close to the border of Colorado, so you can quickly jump over to Ft. Collins for a bit of a “college town” life, or go a bit further and be in Denver (90 miles). If you don’t mind a bit more remote life, Jackson seemed like a good place.

If you’re looking to go more East Coast, keep in mind that VA is not going to be reliable in the future. That’s kind of disappointing to me, since I also escaped CA for freedom, and now VA is looking unsteady. That said, right over the border to West Virginia would probably be safe. Harper’s Ferry is a nice little area, and fairly close to a very nice shooting facility (PNTC).

31

I would pick western Rapid City, SD or the Black Hills in general, and may well move there in 10 years when I retire. I grew up on the prairie just south of the Black Hills and the hills are noticeably cooler in the summer and generally 5-10 degrees warmer in the wintertime. No income tax, gun friendly, and lots of federal grassland and forest to wander around on.

The climate on the prairie (Rapid City is on the edge of the Black Hills) can be pretty hard, and the temperatures range from -20 or colder at times in the winter to 100+ in the summer.

The eastern part of Wyoming has a similar climate but is somehow windier.

Edit to say: I never owned a 4x4 when I lived in SD (my parents did). I got around fine in a 2wd pickup and a car. My dad worked for the state highway maintenance and they just started getting 4 wheel drive pickups when he retired.

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It really blew me away. First trip out there was October and on day one my boss decided we are going on a hike. I’ve never hiked before but within 15 minutes of the project site in Sandy we are going up a mountain. Two days later and a half hour away from the site I’m climbing a waterfall. Let me tell you, climbing a waterfall at 8,000’ MLS for someone who lives at 85’MSL is harder than it looks.

Either way, when speaking with people who work there they seem to live in Murray, West Jordan or Sandy. The residential areas of Sandy look beautiful, a lot of mountain style homes but they are oddly close to each other. All seem to be developments with very little land. My guess is you have to keep going south or west to get some elbow room. I haven’t had that much time to explore but I’m going back middle of February, maybe I’ll drive around.

33

If you’re a gun owning Conservative, rural New Mexico is not bad. Land is still cheap and there’s only two million people in the entire State. This is a pic of the Country I operate in - I’m the one in the blue shirt on horseback. The lady in the middle is our local circuit riding Veterinarian. My teenage daughter is doing an internship with her:

34

What ever your choice, you’ll be moving up. When I retired from law enforcement, I left Commiefornia in the rear view mirror. Grabbed 30 acres in SW Montana, and have never regretted it. The Winters do take some getting used too. Parts of the state are getting fairly liberal, but just about everyone owns guns here.

35

OP,

I get where you are coming from, and would be trying to get out of CA too if I were in your shoes. I am contemplating the same thing, and I don’t live in Cali. I live in NM. Leaning towards AZ/UT. I absolutely love the Moab area, but doubtful that it’s doable. But, then again there is a lot I still love about NM, warts and all.

Gun laws and politics are always going to be in a constant state of change, whether we like it or not. I do not believe ANY state is immune to that fact.

So the question that keeps coming up in the wife and I’s conversation is “would we still be happy living there if the politics and gun laws change.”

Seems like a fair question to ask.

36

When I grow up…

One can dream I guess.

37

I’ve lived in the WA (E and W), UT, the Bay Area, Chicago, FL (many parts), GA, TN, WV, so I’ll begin with that perspective. I also spend a fair amount of time in the Boise area and eastern ID as we have family there. Further, I travel and sample all parts of the US very often and am on a plane roughly once a week. With that, I’d recommend ID or MT if you can deal with the winters.

My wife and I recently left Seattle and moved around a bit looking for another home. We lived in SLC and Boise for a short time and quickly ruled out the former. SLC is great for access to the outdoors, but we both found the residents quirky and didn’t fit in. It was almost like there were two countercultures; LDS and anti-LDS with no in between. That may have been a bias on our part, but we both independently came up with that conclusion after living there for a month. We did like Boise (stayed in Eagle), but I wanted property on a lake or river and proximity to the airport which was near impossible to find.

We recently purchased a home on the Clark Fork river near Missoula, MT :

Here is the winter view from my office:

We grew tired of Seattle as it had quickly evolved into a California-esque political mess with rapidly rising taxation, poor legislation, poor infrastructure, and worsening traffic. Fortunately, we were able to capitalize on a huge financial windfall from buying a home 16 years ago and selling at the peak of the market last May.

This is our first winter and I can’t say I’m all that thrilled about it (already considering buying a winter home is AZ), but it’s better than the eastern part of the state as some have suggested and a helluva lot better than Chicago where I grew up. We’ve had one single digit evening/morning and most days are in the 30s with surprisingly minor snowfall. Ice can be an issue on some of the rural roads, but good tires can mitigate that even if 2WD. The snow, even with small accumulation, can be bothersome though as we’ve had groundcover since Thanksgiving. Even so, people here are really into the outdoors and we’re doing the same. I decided to get a mountain bike with 27.5” plus tires and studs and have been enjoying the heck out of that on some of the winter trails here. The climate is dry here as well and this is much more tolerable when it’s cold.

Missoula is a bit left-leaning with the University, but our left is pretty centrist compared to most states. We have surprisingly good food and several craft breweries/distilleries. The music scene is notable as well and people here are friendly compared to what I was used to in Seattle. In fact, many times I’ve glanced around when someone greets me with such enthusiasm to ensure that they’re speaking to me :blush:. I selected Missoula over Bozeman primarily due to the selection of services: restaurants as mentioned, outdoor vendors, gyms, gun shops, ranges, and shopping. The cost of living is a little more than one might expect for Montana, but it’s better than rapidly increasing home prices in Boise FWIW. Taxes aren’t bad either. Property taxes are roughly 0.83% of assessed value and no sales tax. State income tax is 6.9% at the highest tier which is a low threshold.

You should definitely put western MT on your short list!

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That’s where I grew up. Family been on the same land since the 1750’s.

Hey Warg, what’s the price per acre in that forested country? I am guessing riverfront land is pricey. I’ve got just under three miles on the east bank of the Canadian River, but it’s a lot steeper to get down to it for us. I fill cattle stock tanks with pumps and generators for my percentage of water rights. For our usage I’ve got a 400 foot well of good water for our personal use, but windmills and well sites with more stock tanks. 900 head of cattle have to drink too.

39

Nice place to grow up! Sounds like you have quite a nice setup. I can definitely see the appeal of sticking around here.

Price per acre varies substantially based on proximity to town, power, roads and water rights. There’s a 20 acre property near Snowbowl I’ve been keeping an eye on that’s only $60K. Another in off of Mill Creek road in Frenchtown that’s $79.5K and 40 acres. Conversely, there’s Clark Fork waterfront with a tiny, run down 800 sq ft home listed for $1.25M near Huson!

40

Moab in Grand County, Utah is filling up with Coloradans and Californians. A friend of our family owns one block of downtown on the main street. Her family got rich in the Uranium boom of the early 50’s. The outsiders moving in are trying to change the city charter and all kinds of other municipal ordinances to suit their former lifestyles. The native locals in Moab hate them. Jeepers bring the big money for off-roading, but the locals hate the skinny tire road bikers. They call them “Spandex Speed Bumps”. I have cousins ranching in San Juan County, Utah near Monticello. They were still able to homestead in the 1940’s out there.

I spent the bi-centennial month of July 1976 at Moab with a Boy Scout troop living and working at Arches National Park. Learned the back-country there well when I wasn’t marking trails and cleaning port-a-potties.