A guy on Arf walked through DD’s factory and saw lower parts being made.
Daniel Defense is making their own LPKs.
Yep, I saw the parts coming out of the machine. They were making front take down pins at the time.
I peered around and there were also rear take down pins as well.
(I would link to the thread, but I’m not sure what, if any, are the rules about linking to Arf)
Couple that with DD themselves saying “We manufacture many of the components in our Lower Reciever Parts Kits. Pretty much the only items that we don’t manufacture are the pistol grip and springs.”, then I would assume they do make their own parts, in house, minus the grips/springs.
As opposed to “buy parts from companies that do not sell to the public and call them “ours.””.
If that was the case, then why wouldn’t they also say that they manufacture the grips and springs?
Start up Tooling costs vs. volume and your return on investment.
Springs: Been in a couple factories and pretty neat stuff watching them be cranked out. A whole lot smarter to go directly to an OEM where you can give them specs to meet your application. Coating / heat treating, etc. Unless you can utilize the tooling and sell LOTS of springs to other customers, it doesn’t make any sense / cents.
Grips: I would assume these fall under injection molding. Again, it’s a relatively inexpensive part and other mfg’s already have the tooling and dies. You need coolers, regrinders for the flash, etc (I also doubt they are turning the grip screw and making fasteners.)
I could be corrected here, but I would assume one would also need stamping machines and die casting tooling for the rest of the lpk.
Remember, the same piece of tooling can crank out quality and marginal parts. Example: Eley 22 long rifle rimfire has only 4 or 5 machines that mfg. their entire line of products from entry practice ammo to their match stuff. It’s the components (raw material), rate of output and QC inspection along the way.
Yes, the parts he saw being made were the pivot and take down pins. DD does in fact makes those TWO parts.
Why anyone would believe that they are making everything else just because they saw two parts is odd to me.
For those that actually believe DD is making ALL the parts in their lowers, let me ask you a question.
Do you honestly believe that DD is FORGING their own triggers, hammers, bolt catches and selectors and then machining them??? If you do, do you understand what a gigantic and costly PITA that is???
None of this really answers my question…if DD is really just getting all their parts from other sources, but calling them “their own”, as is being implied here…why would they not also include the grips and springs as “their own”, if they outright said they get those from elsewhere?
In this thread, someone posted the reply they got from DD, saying "We manufacture many of the components in our Lower Reciever Parts Kits. Pretty much the only items that we don’t manufacture are the pistol grip and springs. "
So are you saying DD is lying, and they actually don’t make most of the LPK’s, besides the grips and springs? Because that’s what they’re saying about what they make, given their response that was posted here.
I don’t think anyone is “lying.” The person at DD that made that statement might also not know for certain (see my Ruger says no to suppressors thread).
As I have said, many manufacturers buy parts from wholesalers and put their name on them. If you call up RRA, BM, etc and ask them if they make their own parts, they will tell you yes. These two companies do not make a SINGLE item where as DD makes at least 2 items (which I think is great).
Edited to add, I also just got off the phone with my “guy” at DD and point blank asked him if they make any of the forged parts and he just laughed and said no. So from my POV, DD is NOT lying in the least. They told me the exact truth (which I already knew).
Grant has it covered, but I have spent enough time in the mfg biz to know it clearly does not make any common sense to ‘me’ that any AR company would make springs / metal stampings / forging (die casting) / screws (fasteners) / molding in house without trying to break into a new market segment. They do not do enough volume to justify the tooling and start up costs. The competition for aftermarket lpk parts sounds to be competetive with what I see and too risky an invesment for the margins it makes.
Take their CHF barrels: I do not think they invested in the tooling with the idea of only making their own bbls. I’m sure their intent was to make them for the various disty’s and other AR makers to bring a quality bbl to the table while making a profit.
Lowe’s / Home Depot / Sears / super markets / etc all have in house name brands they call ‘their own’ but in no way are in the mfg / food processing biz. I’m guessing this was their intent and not trying to confuse the buying public.
I noticed C3 Defense has picked up the DD barrel for their builds…not sure of any others who are on board. I wish them the best of luck. I guess that loan to get the CHF tooling has quite an ouch factor every month.
Concerned about where BCM is getting their LPK’s, I sent them an e-mail.
I asked them if they make them in house. Here is the reply I got back:
We actually molten the material right here.
We own several iron mines throughout the US and Latin America
So there you have it! BCM even owns their own mines! WOW, you just don’t get any better QC than that! They actually control the ore coming out of the ground.
Yes, folks this was meant as a joke. Paul and are just having some fun with you.
Grant, Care to take a quess at what total start / tool up costs would be to make 100% tier one lpk’s in house from scratch??
I think it would be mind boggling & a nightmare to even predict all the unseen costs with so many different manufacturing processes / employees / testing equipment / yikes!! I think the scrap alone would make you want to cry.
Unless the company was gearing up for a BIG .mil contract, it would probably be a lot less costly to just machine them from barstock instead of purchasing the machinery to stamp them. They wouldn’t be able to sell them for $70, but people would still buy them. What does a quality (and much more dimension critical) 1911 FCG go for, $150?
The only issue that I had with it was the grip screw. Wrong threads… I had the proper screw on hand so it was not a big deal. I guess who ever orders the out-sourced parts got the P/N confused.
I did notice that the grip was a bit slimmer then the Bushmaster grip that it was replacing. To me that was a non-issue and it is most likely the right size anyway.
I could care less if DD makes every single part in their kit. All I care is if they are quality parts and if they will stand behind their product.
There is not a single company that makes their complete guns from the ground up without using parts from another company. Not Colt or anyone. Its simply too cost prohibitive to do so even when you are pumping out thousands of guns a month.
I guess I am also the dealer that knows nothing about what I am talking about. :rolleyes:
What I find the most interesting is that the people that have “toured” the DD factory have seen only ONE part being made, but for some odd reason they have assumed that DD makes EVERYTHING because of that one part. Strange.
NO MANUFACTURER MAKES EVERTYING IN THEIR LPK’s! NOT COLT, NOT LMT, NOT BCM, NOT DD, NOT STAG, NOT RRA, NOT DPMS, NOT OLY, NOT ARMALITE, NOT NOVESKE, NOT KAC, NOT LWRC, NOT BM, ETC ETC.
Wow I just read that thread and am glad that I haven’t ever really gotten on there… and If they were referring to you they need to reavaluate what they are saying you are a pleasure to do business with…
