What's the "service" life of a magazine?******MAGAZINE MANIPULATION

[Iraqgunz]

I assume that you are talking about a reload when the bolt is locked to the rear? If so, another method is the simply grasp the charging handle and let it fly forward.

@Alaskapopo

I was also trained to slap the bolt release and that is what I train my guys to do. What do you use as an alternative that is reliable when you lose your fine motor skills under stress?
Pat

[bkb0000]

@Iraqgunz

I assume that you are talking about a reload when the bolt is locked to the rear? If so, another method is the simply grasp the charging handle and let it fly forward.

ack… charging it just gets you all tangled up in your gun

[Alaskapopo]

@Iraqgunz

I assume that you are talking about a reload when the bolt is locked to the rear? If so, another method is the simply grasp the charging handle and let it fly forward.

I have found that using the charging handle does not always work with dirty guns. It seems that running the charging handle puts drag on the bolt carrier and if the gun is fairly dirty after a long day of training it does not always go into battery. Have you ever noticed this? Anyway talk to you guys later. I have to wake up and drive to a IDPA match in 6 hours.
Pat

[Iraqgunz]

To be honest I have never seen that happen. But, it is not my PREFERRED method only an alternative method. I have had zero issues hitting my bolt release in high stress situations.

@Alaskapopo

I have found that using the charging handle does not always work with dirty guns. It seems that running the charging handle puts drag on the bolt carrier and if the gun is fairly dirty after a long day of training it does not always go into battery. Have you ever noticed this? Anyway talk to you guys later. I have to wake up and drive to a IDPA match in 6 hours.
Pat

[Jay_Cunningham]

@Alaskapopo

I was also trained to slap the bolt release and that is what I train my guys to do. What do you use as an alternative that is reliable when you lose your fine motor skills under stress?
Pat

Press the bolt release with your support side thumb.

We disagree again with the “fine motor skills” thing. Aren’t pressing the trigger, manipulating the safety and performing a tac relaod all examples of fine motor skills?

But this discussion is now off-topic from the service life of a magazine.

[usmc51]

@Alaskapopo

That is funny because my HK steel mags have held up just fine over the last 4 years. I have heard that the springs get weak but I have not had that problem. In fact I prefer them for wintertime use because P Mags crack in the extreme cold. I use P Mags as summer mags and as range mags.
pat

The problem I/we were having with the steel mags is when you drop them they bend and stay bent rather than pop back like aluminum. I don’t use the thermold magazines because our R&D section tested them and under high volumes of fire common to our pre-deployment training, the feed lips were melting and warping. I figure I’ll stick with good old aluminum magazines with upgraded springs and followers and call it a day. They work in all temperatures, they work in all environments, and they’re relatively cheap, even if they aren’t the flavor of the month.

[Cagemonkey]

@Alaskapopo

That is funny because my HK steel mags have held up just fine over the last 4 years. I have heard that the springs get weak but I have not had that problem. In fact I prefer them for wintertime use because P Mags crack in the extreme cold. I use P Mags as summer mags and as range mags.
pat

I got some HK steel mags and they work fine. Don’t leave them loaded for a long time (even down loaded), the spring weakened and the mag wouldn’t lock my bolt. GI mags with magpul upgrades are good to go. I just ordered some Lancer mags. I like the idea of the steel feed lips. Seems to work for Glocks and AK poly mags.

[Iraqgunz]

Springs do not weaken from leaving them loaded. Springs weaken due to the compression and decompression of the spring which eventually causes them to lose elasticity. If the spring was weak it is because they were crappy or had been used alot.

@Cagemonkey

I got some HK steel mags and they work fine. Don’t leave them loaded for a long time (even down loaded), the spring weakened and the mag wouldn’t lock my bolt. GI mags with magpul upgrades are good to go. I just ordered some Lancer mags. I like the idea of the steel feed lips. Seems to work for Glocks and AK poly mags.

[Iraqgunz]

Have you guys informed MAGPUL about this? IIRC they did testing as well and I don’t believe that this issue was brought up. I could be wrong of course. On the other hand I wouldn’t just be concerned about the mags at that point I would be concerned about the weapon as whole.

@usmc51

The problem I/we were having with the steel mags is when you drop them they bend and stay bent rather than pop back like aluminum. I don’t use the trendy P Mags because our R&D section tested them and under high volumes of fire common to our pre-deployment training, the feed lips were melting and warping. I figure I’ll stick with good old aluminum magazines with upgraded springs and followers and call it a day. They work in all temperatures, they work in all environments, and they’re relatively cheap, even if they aren’t the flavor of the month.

[royta]

@The_Katar

You wrote “slam” - not “push.” Two different concepts.

Yes, I know you are a firearms instructor because you say that a lot in defense of many concepts that you post about and get called on.

And don’t talk down your nose to me.

Listen, you’re supposed to slam them as hard as you can. Didn’t you watch Magnum PI? Oh, if you want to know my credentials…I’m an electrician, who used to watch Magnum PI reruns because I was under 10 and normally in bed when it originally aired on Thursdays at 7:30 Pacific Time.

[C4IGrant]

@stormblue

I know the life of a magazine will vary greatly depending on how it’s treated but I assume there has to be some mil requirement as to the performance of a magazine.

Assuming a well treated magazine, will it function for 5000 rnds, 10000 rnds, …

SB

The Military ASSUMED that the GI Alum mag would be used 1 time and then tossed (on an emergency reload).

People are now hoarding mags like never before and the alum. mags just were not meant for extended use.

Generally the first thing to go on the mag is the spring. Since the cheapest possible spring is used (and only has about 10% of its life left when new). Next will be the feed lips (cracking and or spreading).

The two best things you can do for a GI mag is put in a quality spring (Like ISMI) and a Magpul follower.

C4

[C4IGrant]

@Alaskapopo

Slamming the magazine home hard is how you are supposed to load a gun. You won’t break it. IF you don’t slam the mag home what happens is the mag does not get seated properly about half the time under stress. The proper procedure is to slam in hard and pull down to make sure they are seated.
Pat

This is a negative. Slamming a mag into the weapon is sure way to cause a malfunction and or cause damage to the magazine.

Insert the mag (without letting it ever leave your hand) and then pull down to make it is locked in place.

C4

[C4IGrant]

@Alaskapopo

Well its not a gentle push. It is more of a slam. Yes I am a firearms instructor. What do you do for a living?
Pat

Police firearms instructors can be some of the VERY worst for informationl. They believe that because they have a “title” that they instantly know everything. This would be incorrect.

I would suggest seeking out training from the likes of Vickers or Hackathorn (to name a few).

C4

[C4IGrant]

@Alaskapopo

I was also trained to slap the bolt release and that is what I train my guys to do. What do you use as an alternative that is reliable when you lose your fine motor skills under stress?
Pat

“Slapping” the bolt release is a no go as well. It is VERY easy to miss the tiny button with the palm of your hand. This is why quality instructors teach the use of your thumb to release the bolt. Since the gentlemen teaching this technique have all seen combat at the highest level, I believe they know what they are talking about.

C4

[C4IGrant]

@Iraqgunz

To be honest I have never seen that happen. But, it is not my PREFERRED method only an alternative method. I have had zero issues hitting my bolt release in high stress situations.

Using the CH to release is of course an alternative to using the bolt release, but I would view it as my second option strictly for the fact that it is easy to “ride the bolt” and not allow the power of the buffer spring to drive the BCG home.

C4

[Iraqgunz]

Grant,

I agree and that is why I made my statement. I was expecting to get “sniped at” for not having an alternative. :D. As you have stated those in the know who have BTDT know that utilizing the bolt release properly is a non-issue.

I won’t say anything more or else I may be labeled a “meanie”.

@C4IGrant

Using the CH to release is of course an alternative to using the bolt release, but I would view it as my second option strictly for the fact that it is easy to “ride the bolt” and not allow the power of the buffer spring to drive the BCG home.

C4

[C4IGrant]

@Iraqgunz

Grant,

I agree and that is why I made my statement. I was expecting to get “sniped at” for not having an alternative. :D. As you have stated those in the know who have BTDT know that utilizing the bolt release properly is a non-issue.

I won’t say anything more or else I may be labeled a “meanie”.

Its good to play bad guy once in awhile so have at it.

C4

[beckman]

While this may not directly give an overall average of the service-life of a magazine, it does give an indirect indication.

John Farnam’s website quotes an anonymous worker at a factory test-range, where they fire “hundreds of thousands” of rounds each year, presumably all from AR15-type rifles.

http://www.defense-training.com/quips/25Jan08.html

"Even well-made aluminum magazines eventually flair-out at the top. At that point, they become scrap metal!

Our preference is stainless-steel magazines! Our favorite manufacturer is C-Products (www.cproductsllc.com (http://www.cproductsllc.com) ). A steel magazine will last many times longer than those made of aluminum or plastic. Indeed, most plastic magazines split at the back (near the notch for the bolt hold-open) within five-thousand rounds.

Magpul claims their new plastic magazine adequately addresses all these issues. I sincerely hope they’re right!"

Clearly, there are some issues here.  Some users have had QC problems with C-Products magazines, so the above is only valid regarding a reliable C-Prod mag.  

Given the above claim that "most" non-Magpul plastic mags fail within 5k, it MAY be safe to say that a good aluminum mag would last at least as long as that,  maybe more, according to this anonymous source.  

Sorry that no clear number has been given, but at least the anonymous source uses magazines to failure and probably does not abuse them.

Please do not interpret my post to indicate that C-Products mags are superior, nor do I endorse them.  I'm simply relaying information that comes from a source which seems to have relevant experience and seems to be reliable.  If one desires specific averages regarding the service life of non-abused magazines, it may be possible to call one of the big manufacturers and ask somebody at the test-fire facility.

[Cagemonkey]

As an Armorer in the Marines back in 89-93 I used to have to post an armory guard at the end of duty each day. MC orders specified that the guard be issued two fully loaded 30rd mags. It was not uncommon for magazines to bulge and become difficult to remove and insert into the M16A2. Worst yet, it wasn’t uncommon for the mag to literally explode while the guard was standing duty. With a base plate, spring/follower and cartridges getting scattered about. Leaving some poor Lcpl crawling on his hands and knees at we hours in the morning searching for all 30 rnds. We all know that loading 27/28 rnds. per mag would have made more sense, but orders are orders.

[kal]

bkb0000 says the Pmag (I assume the lips) measure 0.0655 inches, which translate into 1.66mm

Why couldn’t a steel magazine be made from a 1.5mm+ thick sheet of steel? Then heat treat it for hardening and there you go, one bad ass, reliable STANAG magazine. No worrying about lips flaring out, bending them as they drop to the ground, etc.