I normally don’t like having three threads in the first page of a subforum, but since this didn’t really fit in the other two I decided to make it. I’ve apparently got revolver-itis, because my second gun in two weeks followed me home today.
It wasn’t until I got home that I noticed this gun had a lock. My S&W 642 from Grant does not have a lock. I didn’t even know what a lock was. A search of this forum generally regards them as being bad. This gun will never in its life be used for home defense or anything of that nature, but that is the plan. All of my firearms are considered tools for self defense be it from bears, alligators, or street trash.
I think the principle of the lock on a gun is what bothers people. To my knowledge, the locks came about as a compromise for the antigun agenda; the option to lock the gun makes it “safer” to the ignorant minds that push such nonsense. Aside from that, I think there are some who feel the locking mechanism itself could fail at the worst possible moment and that of course renders the weapon useless when it is most needed. But hey, that’s one less gun shooting some one.
BTW- enjoy those wheel guns! My first weapon is a S&W 686. A real Smith-sans lock
Apparently rumor has it the heavy recoiling models, like the 357 scandium J-frames and 44 mag scandium N-frame, can activate the lock during firing, I can’t see a 586/686 falling into that light category. Whether or that is true I don’t know as I have no first hand experience with key lock models. I will say once I went shooting with a buddy who had one that was locked and had forgotten the key at home, fortunately the RO had one so he could unlock it. Personally I am opposed to the entire concept and have never owned anything with a key lock. The good news is, if it bothers you, it can be removed.
You are correct re: lightweight frames/magnum recoil being reported as failing in the locked position. True or not, only the internet gurus know for sure. Why people want the smallest, lightest frame for the heaviest loads is beyond me. I have also heard that a small hex key can effectively undo the lock. Again, the lock itself is pointless, and a solution to a problem that never existed. The last thing I have “heard” is that removing the lock leaves a void that can collect pocket lint, etc, and induce jams. I think there might be parts available to fill this void, but IDK because my S&W is non-lock.
Personally, I saw one J-frame being shipped back to S&W from the dealer/range. Owner bought it new, went out to shoot it, and it locked up within a few rounds with live rounds still in the cylinder. Was kind of the big thing that people were talking about over there.
If I remember correctly, it was a 340PD. Did not ask what the loads being shot were, but from that point on, I felt more comfortable getting revolvers without the lock. Could it have been a fluke? Sure, and I probably can say it isn’t a common occurrence. But I do know that my no-lock 642-1 cannot fail like that due to the lack of the internal lock. Same can be said for my 629-1. A gun with that internal lock can fail just like any other revolver… just add in that one more thing that could go wrong.
I did want to get a TRR8, being I like the design (truth be told, I’m not a .357 Magnum fan). If I did, I’d probably remove the lock… but then that hole/marking would bother the hell out of me. S&W, do more no-lock guns!
I actually had something similar happen to me with a non-lock 342. Obviously a lock wasn’t the issue, the severe recoil from the Corbon ammo had pulled the bullets from the case and locked up the action and that was 38spl, 357 is insane.
Yep, revolvers aren’t unbreakable… sounds like a bad crimp. My point wasn’t that the lock is going to be the only issue that could arise, but that it is just another thing that could happen. As you point out, that would have stopped a no-lock just the same as a lock gun.
I kind of worried about that (crimp issue) as I converted my 642-1 over to 9mm, and they usually aren’t crimped the same as revolver rounds are. My first shots with 115 grain UMC bulk haven’t showed any issues.
Personally, I’m not recoil sensitive… as I’ve been shooting that .44 Magnum 629-1 since I was 12. I’ve fired .357 Magnums out of a LCR, and had more issue with the trigger than the recoil (been behind that J-frame for years, so hard to try something as different as the LCR and accelerate within two cylinders). I love my 642-1, but even I was looking at a different revolver. If there was a 9mm LCRx, I’d probably have made the jump to that (because they don’t, I made sort of a 942).
There is a stainless steel plug available on the Smith and Wesson forum that can be used to fill the exposed hole after removing the lock. I had a friend do that for me, and she also polished the internals slightly and installed an Apex Tactical J-frame kit. The improvement was dramatic. I frankly do not wish to own a revolver with a lock installed.
You can do this yourself, using videos on Apex’s Youtube channel. There is a very handle tool from Brownells that costs $12 to help with the mainspring removal and reinstall. It’s worth the money.
I either buy older non-lock wheel guns, or install one of the plugs.
I saw those plugs over the years, but it still irks me with the marking and that hole still being there (be it filled).
If I went that route, I’d probably want to refinish the gun to get rid of that stupid lock marking… but hey, I’m very particular with my guns. [emoji41]
I did my 642-1 in NP3 Plus, and you barely can make out the S&W markings on the sides. Robar actually had to redo the heel serial number due to it being too light when they stripped the anodizing.
I hear ya, it is aggravating. But I got a really cheap deal on the one with the lock, it was barely used. I think the guy put a whopping 5 rounds through it. Sort of like a lot of folks that buy a 44 Mag, and underestimate the recoil.
I carry the 642’s in a pocket holster, and they get dinged around quite a lot. The NP3 sounds like a good idea, I may send one off to them.
No worries. My question was answered, and I’m absorbing wheel gun info like a sponge.
I still get so much conflicting info on the web. Some folks say within “3 or 4 rounds, every lock S&W will jam and need to be sent back to the factory for repair” (That’s an actual quote from ARFCOM) and other folks say they have “15,000 rounds through their lock S&W with absolutely zero issues”
I’m hoping what titzonritz said is correct and that it shouldn’t affect my pistol due to the weight.
I have had only two lock guns an all steel n frame 45 and a 3" model 60 (j) in 357. Never an issue with the lock. While I am not saying it can’t happen, but my impression is lock failure is pretty rare ( less common than misfires requiring aftermarket firing pins in some guns for example) and as mentioned above tends to be in super light alloy guns in heavy calibers.
My 2cents take the gun to the range and if you fire a couple hundred rounds. If it does not develop an issue in 200 magnum level shots I would not worry about it. I also agree the hatred is more about the philosophy rather than mechanical weakness.
It’s also possible to remove just the inner locking tab and torsion spring, leaving the hole covered by the keying piece. That’s the cheapo way and it also makes the gun look unaltered so that there’s less chance of controversy should you have to use a gun in self-defense that “had a safety feature removed.”
