Whats really enough Defensive Ammo.

Preparation, Preparedness & Prevention Disaster Preparation & Planning
1

This has been touched on in many different threads but has never really been discussed in length. With todays world drifting ever closer to possible Chaos and the possibility that one may some day have to defend his family for what ever reason without outside help what would be the accepted amount of defensive ammunition to keep on hand.

Now I’M not talking about practice, training or ready mag ammo but just the stuff you would store and go to if things started to heat up. I’M sure many will say one can never have to much ammo on hand but in todays market many will only be able to find and afford so much.

So keeping in mind what we as husbands, wifes and older children can actually do while trying to defend are house or bug out locations (No super Mall Ninja fighting skills just everyday practical shooting and tactical skills) what amount of ammo would be the bare reasonable minimum one should keep for both rifle and hand gun?

2

You didn’t want to hear you can never have too much, but that’s the best answer. I mean it’s somewhere between a few magazines worth and thousands of rounds. It really depends on what happens, if anything. I know it looks like the S is about to HTF, but if you were alive in the 70’s, people felt the same way. I bet they really felt that way in the 30’s.

If you’re an optimist, maybe a couple of magazines or boxes of rounds because civil unrest will never be widespread and or long lasting and your planning for a few bad guys trying to steal your stuff.

If you’re a pessimist, then shelves full of ammo to defend you and yours against the hoards for months or years.

I prefer cautious optimism. I’m not building an ammo dump in my garage, but I have enough to protect myself and my family for a period and never expect to use it. No matter what, I gotta live my life and spending too much time preparing isn’t my idea of fulfilling. YMMV

3

IF SHTF my standard M193 would become defensive ammo.

But I do have a growing stash of soft points, and MK318 Mod 0 for home defensive. No matter what that home may be once SHTF. So where I lay my head at night, and possible times searching for food in cities or in some kind of buildings I will use my “barrier blind” loads. For day to day carry, however, I will be carrying M193.

If the MK318 or Softpoints were 35 cents a round when times were good, I’d have cases of that.

So I say optimally 1,000 bonded softpoint loads, or MK318. But at least 500. And however much M193 or M855 you can carry.

4

This is a question that may well be impossible to answer. We are all “preppers” to one extent or another, or we wouldn’t be reading this sub-forum of M4C. But what are each of us prepping for? The answers fall into a few big and important categories that vary on geographic, demographic, and societal location each of us finds ourselves living in or working in. I think each of us has zeroed in on one or two scenarios that we feel individually is the most likely or important for us to be as prepared for as possible. The harsh fact that I know the majority of us have faced is that we just cannot know what may happen, how severe it may be, nor how long it may last. And especially none of us can know for surety when this may come. To this end I think the answer is just to do the best we can.

How many defensive rounds is that? Gosh I don’t know. My number one event I have chosen to focus on preparedness for is an earthquake that shuts down utilities and makes freeways more or less impassable, making grocery store resupply cut off. For my area this is not a far fetched idea, we live in a geologically prone basin and only have 2 interstates passing through that choke at some considerable geographic features. In this situation I see looting and rioting becoming an issue. But I also believe it to be a limited duration of time when things will be “hot.” Even though we should hope for the best and plan for the worst, in a 2-3 week scenario as described how likely am I do get into a true firefight to defend my home against multiple coordinated attackers with any skills, where I may actually burn through mag after mag? I say not likely, so would having 4 loaded mags of defensive ammo probably be enough for the M4? Odds are yes. 3 mags total per pistol, probably enough.

Does that mean that I’m comfortable with just that much? Hell no. I have outlined what I believe to be the most realistic scenario for me. With limited resources to use for prepping, I’ve had to focus my efforts as such. Of course, this doesn’t mean I’m not thinking of long term preparedness, with life just not getting back to the way it is. But you have to have focus on something specific in order to get anywhere, so pick something clear, accomplish it, and plot your next grid point so you can shoot the azmuth and get to ruckin’.

If we are considering true TEOTWAWKI (“Book of Eli” or “The Post-Man”) then there isn’t a number that is enough and for this reason I try not to focus on that possibility as its beyond reach at this point.

Ok, I’d like to diversify the question a bit if the OP allows it. What is “defensive” ammo? I am not ignorant, but rather curious what you and others have for personal criteria to qualify a round as a “defensive” round. Here’s the basis of my little question: In my EDC pistol I have 180 gr Fed Hydra-shocks. Clearly a defensive round, as its characteristics allow for maximum energy dump on target because it will rapidly expand, retain max mass, blah blah. A better choice than FMJ’s for SD. In pistols I think the line is easier to draw. HP of any kind is probably better than FMJ/TMJ for SD. With rifles, especially 5.56/.223, I don’t think the line is as clearly definable. When I’m shooting Uncle Sam’s M4 that he assigns me we are sending M855 down range for practice and for real alike. This is an FMJ for all real intents and purposes (I know it has the steel core and penetrates straighter/truer than a simple FMJ). While many have lamented its performance on the enemy it is still respected as a go-to round by MANY here at M4C. Then we have the m193, a 55 gr FMJ. As far as I know there isn’t much more to it than that, and again I’ve read many on this site say they would want to go to a 2-way range with either it or 855. Of course then there are plenty, and it seems to be the LE community the most, that love the Hornady TAP stuff. I have no experience with that stuff, so I don’t have any criticism or praise. Now, I’ll throw in a couple of other options, what about soft point ammo in .223/5.56? This is an in-between the aforementioned FMJ’s and deluxe HP’s. And then what about some of the premium hunting bullets, like the Nosler partition, Barnes TSX, or Fed Fusion? Sierra GameKings? Speer 70 gr semispitzer, (I personally have loaded both the last two for deer/large predator hunting and know they pentrate and expand very well)?

My question and point is, not only how do we decide how many is enough but what is qualified to be depended on? Do you guys see m193 as better for SD than PMC 55gr? Cost is a huge barrier to me. That is the real root of my curiosity. I have a number of total rounds right now that makes me feel settled, not satisfied but settled. I have 100-200 of the hunting stuff I mentioned, a couple of mags of xm855 and m193 each, a bunch of typical soft-points, and then a bunch of plain jane fmj’s. Basically, I have what I can afford a little at a time along the way and count it all as defensive ammo if there is a threat. I have factory loaded soft-points in the first 2 SD mags and then the mil stuff and then the hunting stuff and down the line I wouldn’t hesitate to use the “range” stuff as I figure no one wants to be shot by anything when it comes right down to it. I’d like to hear what order you’d go with in these options (SP, 855/193, hunting, “range” fmj’s).

I want feedback. I like the premise of this thread. I hope to hear what people consider enough. And I hope that my added twist is agreeable to PA Patriot.

5

I have 1000 rounds for my AR-15’s and 1000 rds for my M-1 and M1A.

Remembering you will not be “recreational shooting” during tough times, i feel by the time expended 2000 rounds, you are dead or the problem is solved. It’s a small enough amount you can still move it with you if you have to, whereas if you have thousands upon thousands it’s not so mobile anymore.

Just fire judiciously, figure out who the leader of any group of miscreants is, “dirt them” and the crowd becomes a disorganized grabass and flees(these aren’t going to be military units where the next higher rank will take command) if someone else tries to rally the grabass they get “dirted”. In other words you don’t have to fire on the whole group, you take out few people dumb enough to try to organize the grabassers soon you run out of people willing to try and they flee every person for themselves.

Besides, if your true intention is to truly survive,then you won’t be seeking out a fight in the first place,you will try to avoid one,so military combat loadouts won’t apply to you. You’ll just need enough to break contact.

As far as M-193 vs, PMC 55gr. realize that they use the same bullets,what is sold as PMC 55GR. is Korean M-193 just without the primer crimp and sealant. It behaves the same as far as fragmentation etc, in gelatin. Unless you expect it to be extraordinarily soggy where you are the sealant isn’t really neccesary,the military does it because they have to have ammo available for everything from the desert to a tropical monsoon.
North america is however a predominately temperate climate.

I have seen commercial ammo decades old with no sealant that “boomed” just fine when the hammer fell, and i live in an area that has from 60 to 95% humidity year round.

6

If things are that bad, anything I can cram in the magazine becomes ‘defensive ammo’.

7

When thinking of defensive ammunition as it relates to a SHTF incident, I don’t think number of rounds per gun, but of number of rounds per shooter.

Each individual in my household old enough to be armed, has access to a 9mm handgun and an AR. Each 9mm has 3 magazines (17 rd) and each AR has 5 magazines (30 rd). This is how many magazines each shooter is able to carry on their person.

I like to have the ability to not only load all magazines, but to reload all magazines three times. This is my personal absolute minimum amount of ammunition to keep on hand and what I recommend when this topic comes up.

In reality, I feel better with 1,000 rifle and 500 pistol per shooter as a minimum. For several years I kept more than the minimum on hand. Now With the difficulty finding ammunition, I’m glad I did.

It is a good idea to have extra magazines above what you would have on your person. Magazines can fail or get lost. If you do keep extra magazines on hand, it would be nice to be able to load them also…

8

If S really HTF and you were on the move, amounts more than you can carry stays home for looters.

What can you move easily? Thats how much is enough.

9

The amount you can carry a distance on your person, and an additional support amount in a vehicle, in a ready to use condition is the minimum. That’s actually going to be a maximum for many folks as well.

10

Enough to load every mag I own.

11

IMHO, most people you’d come in contact with, short of hardened soldiers, people hopped up on drugs or zombies, will be deterred by just about any round. There aren’t too many people, even desperate people that are going to take fire much less actually take a bullet and continue to advance. Sure some will, but when the city folks come looking for food, I doubt I have to have an expanding round to keep them at bay.

12

1 round could be all that is needed. A thousand may not be enough. What is interesting is most people don’t seem to consider the bad guys probably have guns and can use them. So how many rounds can you expend before you could be shot?

13

Why does everybody expect to walk into the sunset if a SHTF thingie happens?

14

If you don’t think you’ll come out on top whatever comes, why even plan?

15

I don’t see a whole metro area backpacking to a remote area.

16

It sounds like you are asking about loose ammo, I think?
I keep 2 .30 cal ammo cans loaded, for each shooter, at all times. The ammo in these cans is not for target, range, or training classes. It is for when it hits the fan. Both .30 cans have Tactailor skins to help move and store:

The first can has 900 rounds of 55gr.193:

The second can has a mix:

I am sure some will say that’s nowhere near enough ammo. There even may be some who say that’s way too much. I arrived at this recipe for this kit from my own trial and errors over the last several years. I have stayed with these cans the way they are for about 2 years now, and have not made any major adjustments. I suggest to just start experimenting with what you think is right for you. Please remember, ammo is heavy, and each of us keep getting older every day…
Cheers,
GB

17

Excellent mixed ammo can for defense! Gotta organize my go to calibers likewise…:wink:

18

I’m not a prepper by any means…but like a couple other guys have mentioned - we gun / rifle owners are naturally a bit more prepared than the normal sheep. We have taken upon ourselves to be armed - for hunting, plinking, self-defense, etc. Most of us like to think that we have the best ammo for each of these functions. Plain Jane FMJ WWB for plinking/steel, some good “TAP” ammo for SD/HD, and the best hunting ammo which will take down our chosen prey.

To stick mostly with the OPs thread - I will say that I have enough ammo to support my initial “bug-in” plan. I don’t have plans to “bug out” per se. I currently reside in Illinois…16 miles from STL (and closer to East STL). We have tornadoes (this past week!), sometimes flooding on the Mississippi, and blizzards which could shut down the area. My scenarios are based on supporting my family in those situations - maybe up to a month at a time. Generators, food, water, medicine, and fuel are my priority. Ammo to survive in these scenarios could probably be carried in a single rifle magazine or a few handgun magazines. Not worried about race wars or LA Riots this far east of STL…but hell, I’m good.

But, to provide somewhat of an answer. My “goals” (a real “prepper” or “gun guy” never divulges how much they have on public forums) - would by 500 rounds per gun/rifle…after all mags are loaded. Six mags per handgun and 12 mags per rifle. At least 200 rounds per HD shotgun - all HD ammo, not counting any of the #4, #6, or #8 loads laying around the house).

Since I plan on staying here - and working within my neighborhood for possible defense - I’m not worried about the weight. My plans take into account possibly providing a handgun to a neighbor - hence 500rds per gun plus mags.

(Now, I am all hosed up if those zombies from I am Legend show up at my crib…my Claymore’s aren’t set up!!)

19

Great idea! Found the Tactical Tailor site to get two bags (thanks!). Just bought both bags and found 2 slightly used 7.62 cans on Ebay. Going to use one bag for pistol ammo and the other for rifle/.22 ammo - to take to ranges/classes. Appreciate your set-up!!!

20

I don’t think there is a one size fits all answer as you already know. Different people have different priorities. My priority is standard velocity 22LR ammo, to be used with my can so that everyone and their brother isn’t alerted if I do have to fire for whatever reason. Considering I live in a semi-rural area I don’t foresee an immediate need to bug out if the SHTF, at least not as quickly as if I lived in say, Detroit and would have a little more time to disappear.

Let’s hope that never happens though.