What ISIS Really Wants

In this months Atlantic. I thought there was some good intel in this article about the true nature and intent of ISIS.

What is the Islamic State?

Where did it come from, and what are its intentions? The simplicity of these questions can be deceiving, and few Western leaders seem to know the answers. In December, The New York Times published confidential comments by Major General Michael K. Nagata, the Special Operations commander for the United States in the Middle East, admitting that he had hardly begun figuring out the Islamic State’s appeal. “We have not defeated the idea,” he said. “We do not even understand the idea.” In the past year, President Obama has referred to the Islamic State, variously, as “not Islamic” and as al-Qaeda’s “jayvee team,” statements that reflected confusion about the group, and may have contributed to significant strategic errors.

The group seized Mosul, Iraq, last June, and already rules an area larger than the United Kingdom. Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi has been its leader since May 2010, but until last summer, his most recent known appearance on film was a grainy mug shot from a stay in U.S. captivity at Camp Bucca during the occupation of Iraq. Then, on July 5 of last year, he stepped into the pulpit of the Great Mosque of al-Nuri in Mosul, to deliver a Ramadan sermon as the first caliph in generations—upgrading his resolution from grainy to high-definition, and his position from hunted guerrilla to commander of all Muslims. The inflow of jihadists that followed, from around the world, was unprecedented in its pace and volume, and is continuing.

Our ignorance of the Islamic State is in some ways understandable: It is a hermit kingdom; few have gone there and returned. Baghdadi has spoken on camera only once. But his address, and the Islamic State’s countless other propaganda videos and encyclicals, are online, and the caliphate’s supporters have toiled mightily to make their project knowable. We can gather that their state rejects peace as a matter of principle; that it hungers for genocide; that its religious views make it constitutionally incapable of certain types of change, even if that change might ensure its survival; and that it considers itself a harbinger of—and headline player in—the imminent end of the world.

The Islamic State, also known as the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham (ISIS), follows a distinctive variety of Islam whose beliefs about the path to the Day of Judgment matter to its strategy, and can help the West know its enemy and predict its behavior. Its rise to power is less like the triumph of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt (a group whose leaders the Islamic State considers apostates) than like the realization of a dystopian alternate reality in which David Koresh or Jim Jones survived to wield absolute power over not just a few hundred people, but some 8 million.

We have misunderstood the nature of the Islamic State in at least two ways. First, we tend to see jihadism as monolithic, and to apply the logic of al‑Qaeda to an organization that has decisively eclipsed it. The Islamic State supporters I spoke with still refer to Osama bin Laden as “Sheikh Osama,” a title of honor. But jihadism has evolved since al-Qaeda’s heyday, from about 1998 to 2003, and many jihadists disdain the group’s priorities and current leadership.

Bin Laden viewed his terrorism as a prologue to a caliphate he did not expect to see in his lifetime. His organization was flexible, operating as a geographically diffuse network of autonomous cells. The Islamic State, by contrast, requires territory to remain legitimate, and a top-down structure to rule it. (Its bureaucracy is divided into civil and military arms, and its territory into provinces.)

We are misled in a second way, by a well-intentioned but dishonest campaign to deny the Islamic State’s medieval religious nature. Peter Bergen, who produced the first interview with bin Laden in 1997, titled his first book Holy War, Inc. in part to acknowledge bin Laden as a creature of the modern secular world. Bin Laden corporatized terror and franchised it out. He requested specific political concessions, such as the withdrawal of U.S. forces from Saudi Arabia. His foot soldiers navigated the modern world confidently. On Mohamd Atta’s last full day of life, he shopped at Walmart and ate dinner at Pizza Hut.

Cont:

http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

Excellent article Will. Thank you for sharing man.

-Jax

We are misled in a second way, by a well-intentioned but dishonest campaign to deny the Islamic State’s medieval religious nature.”

Good article except for that too generous statement. The Current Occupant’s actions make “well-intentioned” a highly questionable assumption. Knocking America off of it’s high horse has long been the goal of the uber Left and better fits the CO’s behavior than naiveté.

I sure wish Daeesh would drop the AKs and RPGs and use swords and spears appropriate to such a medieval state.

I’m far from an expert on the topic, but this seemed a highly accurate and objective look minus PC BS and claiming they are not Muslims, etc. In my view, ISIS may be the final straw that either brings the majority of Muslims and Muslim countries to realize there’s something even worse than each other, and face this threat together. Or, it will devolve into major regional conflict, or worse. In our favor (“Our” being the US and major western nations), ISIS is a larger threat to most Muslims than they are to us, and they’ll have no choice but to confront and, or support those who do.

Two, this article shows very clearly there is no potential at all negotiation, nor appeasement to their demands , no “we can all live in harmony and respect each others Right to exist as we see fit” modern world approach. None, zip, nadda. This is old school religion at work with zero, nadda, zip, room for anything or anyone who does not follow religion exactly as they see it.

This is an “us” vs “them” conflict that will only get worse until an old school approach is taken. The good news is that “us” includes a few hundred million Muslims who are also the targets of ISIS, and are motivated to fight it, and likely stand with modern countries.

ISIS is funded mostly by selling a million dollars + per day of oil from taken oil fields. Who can afford, transport, and store that much oil? It’s seems impossible US intelligence et al don’t know exactly who the entities are purchasing that oil, and either a JDAM (or 10) should arrive at their homes after a single warning to stop, or a team of men who don’t smile often to double tap them and leave a “get well soon card”

I was sure that this was going to be a picture of a rear view of a goat.

Our prez probably thinks the Tea Party is more of a threat than ISIS, ISIL or I-whatever! LOL

Thank You for posting the article and this brief summary.
I really wish more people would take a closer look at this, nobody wants to be drug in to this fight, but I’m not sure how we are not being directed head on in to it.

I think every politician and high ranking military officer should be forced - Clockwork Orange style - to read that article.

One of the largest reasons other “Muslim” nations haven’t gone beast mode on ISIS is because they know what the Quran teaches, they know ISIS follows it to the letter, and they know they do not. This is exactly why ISIS calls them apostates. Muslims around the world condemned the burning of the Jordanian pilot and stated it was contrary to the teachings of Islam. ISIS proved them all wrong when they posted a script from the Quran which depicts Mohammad burning his enemies. Mohammad burned Meccans alive and had a fire built on a man’s chest to torture him. Baghdadi is their leader, but these people follow Mohammad.

If we want to understand ISIS we can read the Quran with understanding that they follow it exactly. So let’s change 8 million to 1.8 Billion, and Jim Jones and David Koresh to Mohammad. Then we are more accurate. We do ourselves no favors to pretend Islam can be brought into modernity. Their sacred texts allow no such thing.

And Christianity and Judaism can be brought into modernity? Because Jews and Christians can keep slaves and stone adulterers and murder apostates, infidels, heretics, and pagans and claim to be carrying out what God has commanded through the Bible and the Tanakh.

The people who live in the modern era, not in some anachronistic Dark Age genocide state - regardless of which Abrahamic faith they adhere to - do so in the same manner: By discarding those bits and pieces of divine writ that they find distasteful.

I haven’t found arguments about religion to be profitable, online or off. Christianity has no need to be brought into modernity as Christianity has brought modernity, in large part, to the world. To deny this is to deny history. Say what you will, but I will not engage further. I believe this thread was meant to address Islam.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxdWTA02a9E#t=18
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/02/five-french-teens-held-for-defacing-300-graves-at-jewish-cemetery/

“We don’t know the motives of these adolescents who don’t have past criminal records and we don’t know of any ideological convictions that could explain their behavior. “They are very very shocked by the turn of events.”

Being willing to ignore what is going on, only allows it to continue, further efforts to place your head firnly and deep in the sand only allows it to continue.
This is France, not Iraq or Iran; you really might want to take a look at how close this has come to dominating the places we fought to free in WWII.

Agreed.

All I have on that:

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

I can’t find Jesus saying anything about Crusades, Inquisitions, Burning Witches, etc. Maybe some people are reading a different version of the NT than I am.

Jesus can be summed up as having said:

Suck it up Nancy. Love God. And be excellent to one another.

I’ll just drop a couple quotes from scripture here:

“For truly I say unto you, Till heaven and earth perish, one jot or one tittle of the Law shall not escape, till all things be fulfilled.” (Matthew 5:18)

“If thou shalt hear say (concerning any of thy cities, which the Lord thy God hath given thee to dwell in) Wicked men are gone out from among you, and have drawn away the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known, Then thou shalt seek, and make search and inquire diligently: and if it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you, Thou shalt even slay the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword: destroy it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof with the edge of the sword, And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and burn with fire the city and all the spoil thereof every whit, unto the Lord thy God: and it shall be an heap forever, it shall not be built again.” (Deuteronomy 13:12-16)

“When thou comest near unto a city to fight against it, thou shalt offer it peace. And if it answer thee again peaceably, and open unto thee, then let all the people that is found therein, be tributaries unto thee, and serve thee. But if it will make no peace with thee, but make war against thee, then shalt thou besiege it. And the Lord thy God shall deliver it into thine hands, and thou shalt smite all the males thereof with the edge of the sword. Only the women, and the children, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof shalt thou take unto thyself, and shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the Lord thy God hath given thee. Thus shalt thou do unto all the cities, which are a great way off from thee, which are not of the cities of these nations here.” (Deuteronomy 20:10-15)

Draw your own conclusions. :slight_smile:

We get it. You don’t like Christianity.

ETA: Literalist interpretations of the Sermon on the Mount, especially in that context, show a complete lack of understanding.

Christ didn’t destroy the law. He streamlined it.

Love God. Love thy neighbor. Do that; you “got dis.” If you loved thy neighbor, you wouldn’t try to put a bone to his wife. If you loved your neighbor, you wouldn’t try and Jack his stuff. It’s pretty caveman, dude.

As a Christian…well, the words in red carry me on, not the OT. I’m not an Israelite, living in the B.C. Era.

Notice, also, you can criticize, and hate, Christianity, blaspheme the Lord, and throw snide digs at Christians, without the concern of getting your head chopped off.

Should tell ya something, broski.

He said no such thing. Pointing out one can find sections in the primary text of the major religions that, if interpreted followed literally would not be in line with modern civilization does not = dislike. Although I’m no Islamic scholar, it seems Islam, when taken to it’s oldest most literal interpretations, is not able to coexist with any western ideals of Democracy, Liberty, or Freedom, not matter your religion or lack there of.

The thread is going to go down the rabbit hole that is religious debate and get locked. Hopefully we can avoid that.

Where did they get all that gear from, anyway?

https://syrianfreepress.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/john-mccain-and-the-leader-of-isis.jpg

[cough]permanent war[/uncough]

I’ll just point this out as well. Some of the thoughts expressed here is exactly why our benevolent leaders fail miserably, and lead our nation to a position of weakness. When facing a determined and ruthless enemy, they criticize and point fingers in all the wrong directions. If anyone wanted to know why ISIS is misunderstood, underestimated, and gaining momentum, they read how Jews and Christians condone killing…like the crusades. Does BHO post here?

For those looking to educate themselves on the drastic differences in the OT vs the Quran, have a read here:
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Bible-Quran-Violence.htm

As a general rule, I’m a history buff–needless to say heavy on Western Civ., but on the Islamist issue, my give-a-damn as to what motivates them is busted. I like dogs, but if one goes all rabid, it’s just a question of how best to make it DRT as fast as possible.

Actions have consequences. Unfortunately, justice is in short supply in this world.