Yeah. Just slap a 16+ inch upper on it and you’re good to go out of state without the 5320.20. Anyway, that’s my opinion. I’m not aware that ATF has ever clarified exactly what “retains control” of the SBR parts entails. I believe that if you don’t have those SBR parts with you when you go out of state, you aren’t “retaining control”. Anyway, how would that work? You’re out of state, an ATF agent out on patrol (:rolleyes:) finds you and decides to check your legal-appearing Title I rifle. He’s going then engineer a raid back at your home address to search for a possible SBR upper? Hmmmm…
Its funny that you mention that. I asked my attorney about that. His advice was completely against that. He did not agree with a 16" configuration w/o Form 20. I never got into the part about slapping on the 16" upper. Keep in mind, that I wouldn’t want to be the test case lol.
ATF has repeatedly stated that removing the short barrel from an SBR removes that receiver from the purview of the NFA. From the ATF’s FAQ on NFA firearms:
Q: I possess a properly registered SBR or SBS. I intend to strip the receiver and remove the barrel prior to selling the receiver. Is the bare receiver still subject to regulation under the NFA as a SBR or SBS?
A: A stripped receiver without a barrel does not meet the definition of a SBR or SBS under the NFA. Although the previously registered firearm would remain registered unless the possessor notified the NFA Branch of the change, there is no provision in statute or regulation requiring registration of a firearm without a barrel because its physical characteristics would make it only a GCA “firearm” pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3)(B). If the subsequent owner buys the receiver as a GCA firearm and installs a barrel less than 16 inches in length (SBR) or 18 inches in length (SBS), the firearm would be subject to a $200 making tax and registration under the NFA by the manufacturer or maker of the SBR or SBS. Because registration depends upon the stated intent of the applicant, there is no provision to allow registration of a NFA firearm by anyone other than the maker or manufacturer.
Q: If I remove the short barrel from my SBR or SBS, may I move the firearm across state lines without the submission of ATF Form 5320.20, Application to Transport or to Temporarily Export Certain Firearms?
A: If the registrant retains control over the parts required to assemble the SBR or SBS, the firearm is still be subject to all requirements of the NFA. ATF recommends contacting law enforcement officials in the destination state to ensure compliance with state and local law.
Heres my thing: ATF can & will “rescind.” Also, “retains control over the parts…”
That sounds like me having the potential to become a test case. No thanks. LoL
Understood. Everybody has to develop their own preferred risk profile. As mentioned earlier, a 5320.20 is no big deal, pretty fast turnaround, and is good for a year.
Look at this video …it might determine weather or not you wanna go the SBR route…I own 4 of them and i prefer them over my other long range rifles…
Thing about lawyers is they can be a little out of touch practically. All I need my lawyer for is to draft a valid trust. His gun advice on the muck and mire of the NFA and ATF regs (if he even knows what I am asking about) always tends toward excessive caution. Even when ATF has clearly stated something as in the case you cite.
Lawyers tend to give advice on the side of caution, because if they give you legal advise that’s wrong they can get in trouble.
This is exactly how I feel about the whole matter of owning NFA items.
I live in Florida just two nautical miles from Georgia and I frequently find myself across the border at the Waycross gun range with my SBR in tow (along with my form 5320.20).
What I’ve never understood about those that say they need a fullsize AR that can shoot 200+ yards is that unless we are in the midst of a SHTF scenario you’re probably never going to be shooting more than 50’ in a home defense situation and that is where an SBR shines above all others.
JMTCW
Accurate, yes; effective, not so much. Terminal ballistics, especially on 5.56mm, will almost always suffer with shorter barrels.
Ballistics do suffer, but the round isn’t ineffective. A round of 5.56 from a 10.5-14.5" barrel, especially the 12.5-14.5" isn’t a pellet gun. Plenty of dead bad guys worldwide would attest to the effectiveness of the round from an SBR, even out at a bit of distance.
I absolutely agree. I have four AR15s. I don’t think I’ve ever shot one longer than 50 yards with the exception of twice-a-year TAC Team qualification on the 600 yard pop-up range. For personal use, if I’m shooting beyond 50 yards I’m shooting a completely different gun.
It suffers,sure. But not to the extent you seem to think. Rough rule of thumb is loss of 125fps per inch loss. 62gr. bonded soft points work well down to 10.5. The round can penetrate barriers and still retain soft target wounding effectiveness.
It depends at what length. I think you lose like 25-50fps per inch from 20 to 16, but it increases from there.
But, they haven’t. In addition no one in another state is going to know if you have a magically registered lower or not. Retains control over the parts is pretty clear and simple in my lexicon.
Maybe there’s been no case law or clarification, because there doesn’t need to be.
I agree. Seems pretty obvious to me too.
So retains control does sound simple. I am still going to follow my attorneys advice.
Retains control of the parts at home, when I am in another state?
Sorry guys - not so simple.
Yes, because once you are home you have ready access to them.
Sell them to someone on Backpage and you no longer retain control and cannot easily access them. Pretty simple.
At which point you are no longer out-of-state and possession of an SBR is legal.
We all understand that ATF letters aren’t clear documentation, and are only valid for the person that it’s addressed to. However, the ATF has answered that question at least once in a letter that’s been made public, and here’s what they said:
Control and ownership aren’t the same, as I’d guess we all assume. Control is simply “in your possession at this time”.