HK requires “No Compromise.”
Sorry, had to do it. Everything in life in life is a compromise and guns are no different. If there were a single gun that did everything right for everyone we wouldn’t have competition or innovation. Pick what fits your needs best and meets those needs reliably.
The M&P would be the best platform if S&W would:
Sig Sauer
I’ve been an LE armorer on Sigs (about 250 of them in my agency) since 1998 and honestly can’t recall one of them failing or having a problem that wasn’t magazine related off the top of my head. They’re outrageously reliable and ready to go out of the box.
P220’s, P226’s and P239’s are what we use most. 100% reliable in my experience and untold thousands of rounds. I carried a P226 daily as a duty pistol for 12 yrs with zero malfunctions or issues of any kind. Likewise with others in our armory.
As a range officer i’ve probably seen close to a million rounds go down range in the dozen years and 250 pistols we have and they just run and run and run. Even guys who don’t clean their guns like they should (filthy) had no problems that a shot of lube on the slide rails wouldn’t take care of.
Definitely not junk
C4
On #2, of the late production M&P’s I have handled all of the triggers have been acceptable and had I owned them may have remained stock. The FSS is something to lust for though.
I shot a bone stock M&P for a long time and did just fine with it. Yes, it can be done and would gladly shoot an M&P trigger over a good many other factory triggers.
C4
I’m a big fan of the M&P and use one as my primary pistol but I think you’re completely right. My 9mm is noticeably accurate and I shoot it much better than my Glocks. I also use the Apex Trigger and put them in all my M&Ps.
For a true duty pistol, particularly at larger agencies with multiple guns to care for, the best options are Glock and M&P–they are the easiest to maintain. Glock is a bit easier to service, while the M&P is more adaptable to a wider range of shooters. The 3rd gen Glocks work best in 9 mm; the jury is still out on the 4th gen Glocks. The M&P runs best in .45 ACP and .40 S&W.
In addition to Glock and M&P, an individual shooter should also consider the HK P30 and HK45. An older 9mm Sig P226 or P228 is an acceptable option. For duty purposes, the 1911 is a dated design, however for officers well versed on 1911’s, the minimum level of quality for a duty/carry weapon is the SA Pro model (either PC9111 or PC9111LR if you want a light rail); if you’re not willing to invest that much into the weapon system, don’t get a 1911 for serious use.
The physical weight of these designs is another strong selling point. Not only are the polymer guns durable and reliable, but they save a significant quantity of weight over many of the older all-metallic frame designs.
I hope the Glock Gen4’s end up working well. They are off to a bit of a rocky start with spring changes, new ejectors, and other various issues. Time will tell…
what’s cast lead costing you? precision delta has FMJ for ~$145/2000 shipped. I looked into lead, but unless i were to cast my own the cost savings would be negligible.
this based on the clinton era nonsense where s&w caved to the trigger lock demands etc?
smith is under new ownership since then, they have a full line of AR rifles and an excellent high capacity pistol (the m&p) They’re also slowly doing away with trigger locks on their revolvers. they’re doing good things lately and i’m happy to buy their products.
My Gen 3 G22 and G19 were both reliable and functioned. I had a fee issues on the G22 when using the Surefire lights, but that has been resolved.
(1) No accuracy issues here. Been quite impressed actually considering what the gun costs.
(2) APEX, worth every penny
(3) On rare occasions my 9mm M&P auto forwards, not one jam yet
(4) a non issue to me
Grant-
Would you say that with the hit or miss reputation of the M&P 9’s for accuracy, have the newer production M&P 9’s largely cured the barrel lockup accuracy issues in your experience?
To be honest, I have only heard one report from a KNOWN good shooter (recently) that their new 9mm M&P shoots well.
C4
I agree on the .45’s, just wish the 9’s were the same.
Shouldn’t be needed. S&W has all the means of fixing this (making it better)
It doesn’t only do it on autoforward. It can also do it while releasing the slide stop.
I think everyone would appreciate this.
I’ve heard it from enough people to think it too would be greatly appreciated. Nice to only need a toothpick, not a hammer and punch, to take a Glock apart.I also don’t like having to remove the rear sight to remove the firing pin block.
These are all things that S&W could easily do and have the finest duty hangun on the market hands down.
Beretta 92G-SD bro
Oh fucks yeah hells yes
^^^ Agree 100%
I’ve been in LE for the last 15 years and I’ve previously served 9+ years in the military, primarily in military intelligence and special forces. As an LEO, I have carried a 9mm Sig P226 on duty my entire career. My agency currently carries the 9mm Sig P226R, but we are in the process of changing over to the same weapon in .40 S&W within the next few months.
In all my experience using the Sig P226 in both LE and the military, I have never seen one fail for other than magazine related issues. My Sigs have eaten any and all ammo I’ve fed them without so much as a hiccup.
In fact, I took an advanced pistol handling class last summer (Combat Focus Shooting/Advanced Pistol Handling with Rob Pincus) where we fired about 1,800 rounds in 3 days and I had no failures unless they were set up by me as part of the training. Others in the same class used various Glocks, M&Ps, 1911s, etc. and all experienced failures, with a few having to be removed from the firing line to fix or replace completely.
Sigs are über reliable and built strong as tanks!
P.S. - I own several Glocks (with my primary off-duty carry being a G27) and a 1911 model and I’d still choose the Sig P226 as my duty weapon.
JMHO, but…
M&P’s still break a lot (though not as much these days), but they’re surely #2 due to what they offer shooting-wise coupled with what they offer in configs to fit varying officers. Some agencies stay away as regardless of what S&W and the gullible BATF may say, armorers can recognize single-action when they see it.
The H&K pistols with their high bore-axis’, horrible triggers, and difficult detail-strip complication have always been and still are even today more hype than substance ever since the P7M’s were retired due to how much they cost to manufacture.
Sigs were the cat’s ass until serious shooter’s grip’s evolved and they found that all their controls/levers were in horrible places unless a state-of-1985 tea cup grip was employed, and what a “bore-axis” is and that a high one isn’t the best for follow up shots…
Think pre-2010ish (non-MIM extractor) 9mm Glocks are the best mix of shootability and bombproof-ness in a duty pistol, since they do much more right than wrong, tend to go bang most of the time, and are pretty hard to break.