All 5 officers that I am friends with seem to think its dangerous because “untrained” people with guns mean more danger for them. I see there point, but this seems to be an opinion mostly held by LEOs.
Being a young man who takes self defense very seriously I find this disheartening. It’s quite strange to me that the Officers I know take such an awkward stance to it.
I know a lot of you are Law Enforcement officers, do you feel the same? Why or why not?
Well i have 2 friends that I train with who are LEOs and they like it. Most of the LEOs I have talked to at CCL classes or at Training courses around the country say the Civilians take Conceal Carry more seriously that LEOs and that most train more.
My 2 friends belong to the side of they practice alot verse only during qualifications so they have a bad taste for many LEOs in their department.
My 2 frineds are Lousiana LEOs just to give a regional resoning.
Most of the LEOs that I have trained with at Training Facilities are from the Southwest, Califronia, and the middle part of the US.
my close friend thinks somethings wrong with me if i’m not armed, he will look around trying to figure out if we’re in a gun free zone. outside of that he’s a deputy and i work for power company but he seams concerned when i’m not armed, of course i live in the south as well. i go shooting more often than him and have “it would seam” more knowledge about the laws involving civilians. he serves warrants so he only deals with people already running from the law so they are all bad to him. he dosent have to deal with the average joe in most cases either so that may explain allot.
I’m not certain as to why cops think they are more at danger if a law-abiding citizen is armed. The people who are a danger to both the public and the cops have been carrying concealed for a lot longer than either the law-abiding citizen or the cops.
It must be because they constantly deal with all the real “winners” of society.
I heartily and actively support and promote CCW for willing, law-abiding citizens. Add NFA items to that list as well.
Where I work (Alameda County, CA - i.e. Oakland) the only people who can get a CCW seem to be judges and DAs. I have a feeling our crime rate would plummet if folks were allowed to CCW.
In the past few weeks two store owners/employees have been in shootouts with the rap video flunkies and each has sent a turd to that eternal crackhouse in the sky. The bad guys hate it when the good guys fight back. Some of the local thugs were quoted in the paper (Oakland Tribune if I recall) that it wasn’t fair their friend got killed just becuase he was robbing a pizza parlor with a AK-47. Never mind the fact that the store owner had his entire family were in the business at the time including an infant child. The store owner was in fear for his family and his own safety but the welfare recipients in the neighborhood blame the victim. Typical. The nerve of these assholes never ceases to amaze me even after five years on the job in Oakland.
I hope the cockroaches start having second thoughts about robbing businesses, but that would require brain cells, and brain cells are more difficult to come by than a conservative person living in Berkeley.
in my experience with cops it often makes a difference if he/she was into guns before becoming a cop. One of my best friends is a cop and he always says he’s not worried at all by law abiding citizens with guns and wants as many as possible to have them, since one of them might save his bacon some day, and he totally understands people wanting to protect themselves. He was raised in a similar small town to myself, however, and raised with guns, so they aren’t the bogie man to him. It’s more likely the cops who were from the City originally and only have anything to do with guns because they are a cop that are anti gunners.
It is somewhat funny to me that some officers feel that its more dangerous for law abiding citizens to own guns than to be prey for criminals that have weapons. Ask them what their response time to a crime scene THAT HAS ALREADY taken place is. :rolleyes:
Truth be told, most officers are horrible with guns and couldn’t shoot the side of a barn if they had too. There are exceptions to this rule, but officers that train on their own time and own dime are few and far between IMHO.
C4
Couldn’t have said it better myself Grant.
I’ve shot with my fair share of cops, my Dad is a retired cop and I think you nailed it. Most cops are horrible shots and since they’ve had “training” and you and I haven’t we must be worse than them. Pure projection on are their part. Then like you said, there are cops who are into it and shoot very well, but sadly they are the exception.
It MATTERS NOT if there are some who are untrained with their weapons. It’s not like you turn on the news every night and see some CCW’ing civi just shot someone because they were untrained. I’d venture to bet that there are a LOT more firearm related accidents that have NOTHING to do with CCW’s…
There is NO EXCUSE for treating all civis like they should not hold a CCW.
This is EXACTLY how most LEO’s have acted towards civis, in MY experience. Unfortunately, most LEO’s I’ve met, act like they are the only one’s who need and should carry guns.
This is unfortunate, and I KNOW that there ARE INDEED some GOOD LEO’s who are very respectable, and who do not act like this towards good honest citizens.
I salute those LEO’s who are kind and respectable. I only wish I could say this to all LEO’s I’ve met…
I’ve been active in Law Enforcement for over 20 years now (got my pension from one dept. and moved on to another…what the hell am I thinking!?). I have no problem with CCW. Having said that I don’t believe CCW licenses should be handed out like candy. Some states (like PA) only require a back round check, prints and photo be taken. Personally I’d like to see some minimal training as well. Like a 8 or 16 hour class on firearms safety and the laws regarding self defense in the state.
Several of you have made the comment that most cops don’t seek any more training then the department mandates. This is also true for many CCW holders as well. Here in PA there are more then a few who got their license and just go merrily on their way not knowing which end of the gun is the dangerous end and under what conditions they can use it. This is readily apparent if you spend any time in the local gun shops (and ties into the tomfollery in the gunshop thread nicely). Everyone who carries a gun for serious social purposes owes it to themselves, their family and the public at large to be as proficient and adept with the use of their firearm and it’s legal use as possible.
To address the “cops can’t shoot” vein of the thread I can say after 17 years of teaching cops from across the U.S. and around the world how to shoot and the tactical application of firearms that there is more then a bit of truth to this. Most cops are not “gun people”, much like most people are not “gun people”. The percentage of cops that are into guns pretty much mirrors the percentage of the general population who are into guns (perhaps just a BIT higher).
How the hell does this happen you ask. Most guys look at Law Enforcement as a job (especially now) and not so much a calling or career. Many have families that they struggle to feed and care for just like the rest of you. Money spent on ammo and training could be paying the rent or doing something unrelated to work (and thus helping to reduce stress). I’m lucky that I have no children and an understanding wife who allows me to spend money on toys and training classes.
Not many cops get the training they need from their department…it’s just too expensive and politically incorrect for the bean counters and politicians. I fought this battle for years as the lead firearms and tactical instructor. They would rather pay the funeral, settlement or stake out a sacrificial goat, then spend the cash before hand…oops sorry I got carried away…I’ll put the soap box away now…
To state that (some, not all) cops are horrible shots & think that we are better than the general public because we have training you do not is a bold & uninformed assumption for the most part. Yes, there are pogie bait eating outta shape moron popo’s out there who only care about getting off on time & how the power of their position is viewed. We don’t put up with that crap on the dept I work for. I wish I could say the same for the majority. I wasn’t into a lot of firearms before I became a Marine & didn’t get into buying AR’s until I had been out of the Corps & a sworn officer for 7 years & the AR was what I used on AD.
Yes, I privately train with my rifle on regular basis & instruct various tactics & weapons classes in my area with a lot of other tactically minded cops…most of them former military. This doesn’t mean we look down on “nasty civ’s.” There are a few that are afflicted with what we call “badge head” (feeling & display of arrogance & superiority, etc., etc.) out there, but it’s a minimum IMO. I’m a Christian & don’t let that kind of mindset enter my brain housing group. I deal with a lot of citizens who have a complex when dealing with us because they think we think we are better than them. Oh well, such is life. Drive on.
Finally, to answer your question…I personally don’t have any issues with anyone with a CCW as long as they are responsible & maintain common sense with the privledge. We run into a few who think it’s ok for them to wave or otherwise display their weapons to show off in certain situations. Personal protection or protection of life or limb of another is what it’s for. Not to show off. Anything else should be left for the leo’s to handle. It’s just a fact that a lot of cops are better trained to handle weapons in certain situations. That doesn’t mean we or I think any less of those who are not. It’s also a fact that many cops have no clue what they are doing. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to tell the difference between the two.
You, sir, are a refreshing surprise and I salute you for your common sense and insight. You are clearly an erudite and perceptive individual! 
Okay, I’m making a big deal about it because I lived in Alameda, right across the bridge from the Fruitvale BART station for four years. I never met a police officer when I lived there (whether in SC, SF, Marin, Contra Costa, or Alamed counties) who thought a mere “civilian” should be “allowed” to carry a weapon, and most of them were offended by the fact that people in some more forward thinking counties could not only get a carry license, but they actually had the temerity to actually obtain it and then carry a real, live gun on their persons.
I was not politically aware or interested in firearms then, but things have changed. I hope you have some colleagues who see things the way you do.
I actively support and encourage all law abiding citizens to arm themselves. I get mad at people who have a CHL and are not carrying a gun. This happens quite a bit. If you go through the trouble to get your permit carry the damn gun.
Fixed!
Agreed^^^^
I shoot more than most of the LEO’s that I know.
My Cop friends like the idea of CCW.
Many of my colleagues feel the same way I do. Hell, most times we roll up on scene after someone has been robbed, stabbed or shot. We know there would be far few bottom feeders plaguing Oakland if law abiding (non convicted felons) were allowed to carry. My department is very pro gun and our range personel encourage us to teach our families to shoot. Most of our sworn staff lives in the Tracy/Manteca area where firearms are not nearly as taboo as they are in the east bay.
Back to Oakland… I guess the city council and police chief want the property values in the flatlands to stay in the gutter. It’s a shame considering what a beautiful area the city is in. My idea for fixing the crime problem in Oakland is a tactical nuke near International and 82nd Ave and another near Market and West Grand Ave.