We're Screwed ... Russian Thinks USA Will "Disintegrate" in 2010

Oh, dear.

I should buy a few more M4’s and think about moving or something like that.

Time to order a bigger bug-out bag. :confused:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123051100709638419.html

DECEMBER 29, 2008

As if Things Weren’t Bad Enough, Russian Professor Predicts End of U.S.
In Moscow, Igor Panarin’s Forecasts Are All the Rage; America ‘Disintegrates’ in 2010

»By ANDREW OSBORN

MOSCOW – For a decade, Russian academic Igor Panarin has been predicting the U.S. will fall apart in 2010. For most of that time, he admits, few took his argument – that an economic and moral collapse will trigger a civil war and the eventual breakup of the U.S. – very seriously. Now he’s found an eager audience: Russian state media.

In recent weeks, he’s been interviewed as much as twice a day about his predictions. “It’s a record,” says Prof. Panarin. “But I think the attention is going to grow even stronger.”

Prof. Panarin, 50 years old, is not a fringe figure. A former KGB analyst, he is dean of the Russian Foreign Ministry’s academy for future diplomats. He is invited to Kremlin receptions, lectures students, publishes books, and appears in the media as an expert on U.S.-Russia relations.

But it’s his bleak forecast for the U.S. that is music to the ears of the Kremlin, which in recent years has blamed Washington for everything from instability in the Middle East to the global financial crisis. Mr. Panarin’s views also fit neatly with the Kremlin’s narrative that Russia is returning to its rightful place on the world stage after the weakness of the 1990s, when many feared that the country would go economically and politically bankrupt and break into separate territories.

A polite and cheerful man with a buzz cut, Mr. Panarin insists he does not dislike Americans. But he warns that the outlook for them is dire.

“There’s a 55-45% chance right now that disintegration will occur,” he says. “One could rejoice in that process,” he adds, poker-faced. “But if we’re talking reasonably, it’s not the best scenario – for Russia.” Though Russia would become more powerful on the global stage, he says, its economy would suffer because it currently depends heavily on the dollar and on trade with the U.S.

Mr. Panarin posits, in brief, that mass immigration, economic decline, and moral degradation will trigger a civil war next fall and the collapse of the dollar. Around the end of June 2010, or early July, he says, the U.S. will break into six pieces – with Alaska reverting to Russian control.

In addition to increasing coverage in state media, which are tightly controlled by the Kremlin, Mr. Panarin’s ideas are now being widely discussed among local experts. He presented his theory at a recent roundtable discussion at the Foreign Ministry. The country’s top international relations school has hosted him as a keynote speaker. During an appearance on the state TV channel Rossiya, the station cut between his comments and TV footage of lines at soup kitchens and crowds of homeless people in the U.S. The professor has also been featured on the Kremlin’s English-language propaganda channel, Russia Today.

Mr. Panarin’s apocalyptic vision “reflects a very pronounced degree of anti-Americanism in Russia today,” says Vladimir Pozner, a prominent TV journalist in Russia. “It’s much stronger than it was in the Soviet Union.”

Mr. Pozner and other Russian commentators and experts on the U.S. dismiss Mr. Panarin’s predictions. “Crazy ideas are not usually discussed by serious people,” says Sergei Rogov, director of the government-run Institute for U.S. and Canadian Studies, who thinks Mr. Panarin’s theories don’t hold water.

Mr. Panarin’s résumé includes many years in the Soviet KGB, an experience shared by other top Russian officials. His office, in downtown Moscow, shows his national pride, with pennants on the wall bearing the emblem of the FSB, the KGB’s successor agency. It is also full of statuettes of eagles; a double-headed eagle was the symbol of czarist Russia.

The professor says he began his career in the KGB in 1976. In post-Soviet Russia, he got a doctorate in political science, studied U.S. economics, and worked for FAPSI, then the Russian equivalent of the U.S. National Security Agency. He says he did strategy forecasts for then-President Boris Yeltsin, adding that the details are “classified.”

In September 1998, he attended a conference in Linz, Austria, devoted to information warfare, the use of data to get an edge over a rival. It was there, in front of 400 fellow delegates, that he first presented his theory about the collapse of the U.S. in 2010.

“When I pushed the button on my computer and the map of the United States disintegrated, hundreds of people cried out in surprise,” he remembers. He says most in the audience were skeptical. “They didn’t believe me.”

At the end of the presentation, he says many delegates asked him to autograph copies of the map showing a dismembered U.S.

He based the forecast on classified data supplied to him by FAPSI analysts, he says. He predicts that economic, financial and demographic trends will provoke a political and social crisis in the U.S. When the going gets tough, he says, wealthier states will withhold funds from the federal government and effectively secede from the union. Social unrest up to and including a civil war will follow. The U.S. will then split along ethnic lines, and foreign powers will move in.

California will form the nucleus of what he calls “The Californian Republic,” and will be part of China or under Chinese influence. Texas will be the heart of “The Texas Republic,” a cluster of states that will go to Mexico or fall under Mexican influence. Washington, D.C., and New York will be part of an “Atlantic America” that may join the European Union. Canada will grab a group of Northern states Prof. Panarin calls “The Central North American Republic.” Hawaii, he suggests, will be a protectorate of Japan or China, and Alaska will be subsumed into Russia.

“It would be reasonable for Russia to lay claim to Alaska; it was part of the Russian Empire for a long time.” A framed satellite image of the Bering Strait that separates Alaska from Russia like a thread hangs from his office wall. “It’s not there for no reason,” he says with a sly grin.

Interest in his forecast revived this fall when he published an article in Izvestia, one of Russia’s biggest national dailies. In it, he reiterated his theory, called U.S. foreign debt “a pyramid scheme,” and predicted China and Russia would usurp Washington’s role as a global financial regulator.

Americans hope President-elect Barack Obama “can work miracles,” he wrote. “But when spring comes, it will be clear that there are no miracles.”

The article prompted a question about the White House’s reaction to Prof. Panarin’s forecast at a December news conference. “I’ll have to decline to comment,” spokeswoman Dana Perino said amid much laughter.

For Prof. Panarin, Ms. Perino’s response was significant. “The way the answer was phrased was an indication that my views are being listened to very carefully,” he says.

The professor says he’s convinced that people are taking his theory more seriously. People like him have forecast similar cataclysms before, he says, and been right. He cites French political scientist Emmanuel Todd. Mr. Todd is famous for having rightly forecast the demise of the Soviet Union – 15 years beforehand. “When he forecast the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1976, people laughed at him,” says Prof. Panarin.

Write to Andrew Osborn at andrew.osborn@wsj.com

Around the end of June 2010, or early July, he says, the U.S. will break into six pieces – with Alaska reverting to Russian control.

There’s their take. Not happening.

“Cocaine is a helluva drug!”

Along the lines of …“Afghanistan will be a Soviet republic”.

hmm… i just don’t see Americans submitting to the rule or “influence” of these horrible governments… china? eu? CANADA? MEXICO??

hahaha. we may just fight each other and split up, but not to be absorbed by a bunch of fags. if we did split up, and china invaded the west, i think the world would discover that American citizens care more about not being invaded than they do about being apart.

nothing would bring this country back together faster than an invasion.

and while we’re on the subject …

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine_Nations_of_North_America

:confused:

i’ll be in the Empty Quarter if anybody needs me

+1

Please don’t forward my mail or calls…

Isn’t this how Enemies F&D turns out?

I honestly don’t think it’s that unreasonable of a prediction right now…

And this guy is a professor. Please, whoever believes this crap should really be slapped silly. Thank God I have a husband who is packing away the armor and ammo. Because we’ll fight like hell before giving up to any other country or government that is not the good ole’ United States of America that was formed under one God! People should be more concerned about their own personal salvation and treating each other like humans than worrying about crap like this. Thank you, God Bless and happy new year!

years ago, when i actually had no responsibilities and nothing to do most of the day, i wrote a few short stories based upon a US dissolution. having just gotten out of the Army, they focused mainly on the troops we have stationed in horrible places, and the natural problems with being a foreign soldier in a foreign land without a country and no great option for getting “home.”

my characters were pretty much screwed… no contact with their families, little word of what was actually happening in the former USA… a couple made it out and made it home, by the skin of their teeth and with a trail of blood and fallen comrades… but most were too busy trying to stay alive to engage any real plan of escaping- our forces having divided, units mostly sticking together and becoming their own factions, and now competing for survival against and with islam, and each other.

Oh crap. I have to buy more ammo and start building my bunker!!

They wish. :rolleyes:

And it starts when they found a dead guy with an old bolt action rifle with a scope mounted cockeyed that was used to shoot spectators at a pro football game in the Baltimore/DC area. :slight_smile:

got any extra room in there for me, buddy ole pal? :smiley:

kind of like what happened to the Soviet union? I think I’ll move to texas. They beat Mexico before, i think they can do it again. :cool:

In Russia, stupid ideas have you!

Blah…not that hard to imagine us falling apart these days. To think that China will be the bigger influence in AZ and SoCal, over Mexico? Doubtful. I’d shift the blue zone two states to the West. Mexico can’t even handle their own business these days, and I dont see that improving, so I’d call it more of a cultural influence than political one though. It’d be the really wild, wild west I’m afraid.

Maybe NorCal and the NW could get Asian influence, assuming they set up their own gov’t and it was propped up by China. I don’t see China needing or wanting to do anything militarily, just puppeteering behind the scenes. I think that as a country, while they’d like to see the US go down, they’d rather US stay a single bloated beauracracy full of consumers for cheap goods than to break apart. They may want to usurp our position of power globablly but they’ve become linked to our fate somewhat.

The middle US going Canadian…perhaps. Canada is is the best candidate for just up and joining based on similarities and borders but is Canada sufficiently isolated from US economic problems to be in a position to do anything here, or to support a portion of the former US?

The east cost may have a good chance of reorganizing and forming a gov’t but they population density there could mean things will get out of control much faster than any organization could occur. It would need direct, immediate outside
influence to avoid complete collapse especially in the densest parts like NYC.

Bottom line to me: under these circumstances, it won’t matter too much who is officially in control because the reality will be that no one is in control of much of anything.

Oh and this whole thing is just silly. Fun for doomsday wargaming, beyond that, just tinfoil.

Sorta :wink:

Me too.

I have trouble seeing Idaho and Utah going with the Kalifornia group, plus alot of Northern NV. Vegas though, we’re already a damn suburb of LA.

No big deal even if it does come true cause were all gonna die in 2012 anyways. :smiley: