good choice, it’s a quality firearm. I’d strongly recommend a rental session with both guns too
Out of curiosity, can you feel the trigger reset point when you’re shooting at speed? By that I mean shooting something like the FAST drill or a Bill drill, Ihack; anything like that. I ask because I see a lot written about tactile/audible reset, but to be honest, I don’t know where it is when I’m shooting at speed and I shoot a Glock. In fact, to look for it would slow me down and I’m not that fast to begin with, so i don’t even worry about it. And when I read about it, I wonder if people can consistently find it at speed.
This is just me being curious. I’m not saying in any way that the M&P 9 is a better gun than the PPQ or the opposite for that matter, just curious about this one aspect.
It’s a good point and I actually agree. I think an audible reset is highly over rated unless you’re shooting slowly. In fact, the glock reset is so strong, I sometimes find it distracting since it resets so strongly into my finger
What I think is cool is that we are discussing pistols that are good alternatives to Glocks and one is US made
Well said. I had thought of reaquiring another M&P but glad I waited until the PPQ came on scene.
Can anyone comment on how the APEX FSS trigger compares to the PPQ’s trigger? I’ve fondled a PPQ at the LGS, but I don’t know anyone who has an M&P with an FSS.
I have a .45 mid with a FSS and a PPQ, As we all know, the PPQ’s trigger is excellant…IMO the FSS is even better…Gets rid of the hinged trigger, take up is short and breaks around #5. I feel the FSS breaks cleaner. The FSS is very 1911esq…Between the two, the Walther is no slouch, But, the FSS is just a better trigger… On a M&P.45, which is already laser accurate, this makes it that much better…They’re expensive, but I feel they’re worth every dime.
The FSS is fantastic, but I don’t think that it is the best idea for a carry gun.
I would do that Duty/Carry spring kit and then the AEK. This is the best trigger on the market and closely emulates a 1911 trigger.
C4
PPQ fanboy.
FSS: 3.5 pound pull with little take-up. Very crisp. No reset. Grant’s advice is a good way to go.
PPQ: 5.5 pounds. Very crisp with more take-up than the above. Excellent reset.
At speed I do not bother with using resets. Doing slow fire accuracy work they are handy and can save some time at the very least.
Without using the reset during slow fire 25 yard accuracy work, I have found that I can break a well executed (proper technique-wise)
shot sooner with my PPQs (I have three) than with my FFS equipped
M&Ps (have four). It is interesting that I prefer a 5.5 pound trigger to a 3.5 pound trigger. That is how clean the PPQ trigger is. I would never have guessed that it was 5.5 pounds. Mine are broken-in, so, they may be lighter than 5.5 now, I don’t know.
I made some comments on page one of this thread regarding the triggers.
No. Just can’t stand absolute unfounded claims being made. A match barrel does not make a pistol more accurate.
Oh, and in fear of being banned, I’ll hold my reply to your post.
Nothing to attack someone over, eh?
Nope.
If you get a chance, read this thread about first hand accounts of the storm lake barrel
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=104659
to me it makes sense how a hand fitted, match grade barrel, with a longer length would be more accurate than a shorter, factory manufactured barrel.
The word “match” barrel means many things to different people. Many manufacturers make "match’ barrels that are drop in (no fitting). In this instance, there is most likely NO noticeable upgrade in accuracy.
We hand fit SL barrels (with oversized hoods) to M&P slides. The increase in accuracy CAN BE huge. For instance, my M&P with factory barrel shot 7-8" groups. I installed a match (non-fitted) barrel in it and my accuracy improved to about 6" groups. My hand fitted barrel created some 1" groups.
C4
Adding a DCAEK and a fitted Storm Lake barrel certainly made my M&P 9L capable of better accuracy in my hands. As of yesterday I have a PPQ 9 on the way, so I’ll be very interested in the subsequent head-to-head comparison.
Cool. Come back and let us know your findings.
My M&P 9L is basically a range gun. It’s accurate, but not that much more accurate than my Gen 3 Glock 19. My motivator for getting the PPQ is the unreliability of the Glock (extraction/ejection) and to replace it as a carry gun.
I am of the opinion that with Combat Oriented Sights, there is only so much accuracy one can squeeze out of a gun. As an example, I can put a gun in my Ransom rest and get it to shoot .5" groups. I, on the other hand can only get 2.5-3" groups off a rest (as I have to use the sights).
One of the reasons I put the Triangle RMR on my M&P is that I can zero the tip of the triangle and get MUCH better accuracy than I could with combat sights.
C4
The word “match” barrel means many things to different people. Many manufacturers make "match’ barrels that are drop in (no fitting). In this instance, there is most likely NO noticeable upgrade in accuracy.
IMO, unless each barrel is cut to fit each slide, it is not a “match” barrel.
The 99-series pistols have always been some of the most mechanically accurate polymer pistols out there. Walther seems to pay attention to barrel to slide fit in the assembly process to insure that their pistols are as accurate as can be without going as far as fitting each barrel to each pistol.
On the G&A review of the PPQ, where the author was flown to Ulm, Germany to visit the Walther plant where the PPQ is made, he stated this:
One of the attributes of computer-controlled machining is that you can make parts to exacting precision and not have to hand-fit them. Well, Walther takes that a step further. I watched one of the assemblers, sitting at his bench with a bin of slides on one side and a bin of barrels on the other. He would snatch out a slide, grab a barrel and check for fit. If he didn’t like the way it would pop in and out of battery, he’d pull it out of the slide and set it on his bench. (He was careful to set barrels down ranked according to fits.) He’d try another, or a barrel off the bench, until he had one fitting the way he liked. Then he’d put that assembled slide and barrel on a frame and check striker movement with a special gauge. After adjusting things, he’d then cycle and dry-fire it until it felt “proper.” Then, and only then, would it go into the “done” rack.
http://www.gunsandammo.com/reviews/new-wave-walther-walther-ppq-review/
Walther does not consider their barrels to be “match” barrels, but their pistols can outshoot pistols that claim that their barrels are.
We hand fit SL barrels (with oversized hoods) to M&P slides. The increase in accuracy CAN BE huge. For instance, my M&P with factory barrel shot 7-8" groups. I installed a match (non-fitted) barrel in it and my accuracy improved to about 6" groups. My hand fitted barrel created some 1" groups.
There are reports of PPQ pistols getting 1.5" groups with factory loads.
There are reports of P99 pistols getting 1.5" groups with factory loads.
7"-8" groups is ridiculous with today’s technology. Nobody, including S&W, should find this acceptable, IMO. The fact that a custom fit match barrel only gives the M&P a .5" edge in accuracy over a stock PPQ with factory loads, is ridiculous IMO.
As far as mechanical accuracy, the PPQ is much better than the M&P.