I have looked hard at both the PPQ and the full size M&P9.
Here is what I have noticed…
Problems with the M&P9 full size:
The trigger and it’s lack of noticeable re-set - this means I would need a 100 dollar Apex fix.
There are some M&P9s that have accuracy problems. If mine had it…there is another 100-200 bucks in a replacement barrel.
Problems with the PPQ:
Mags are hard to find and expensive. They SAY that you can run some other mags (Magnum Research or P99) but some report iffy feeding.
The selection of holsters is less than for the M&P.
The mag release is ass-backwards from any other pistol I own.
These things may or may not bother you about the PPQ or the M&P9.
I am still trying to sort out if I want to dump my odd-ejecting G19 for the PPQ or the M&P. So far…I lean towards the PPQ, but I am also toying with spending a little more and going for a P-30 with the LEM trigger.
Like you…I am just not sure yet. This sucks that Glock had to take a dump and lost it’s spot as the “go to” polymer 9mm pistol in the gun world. Most of the others are a mix of compromises.
I just wanted to make sure you were aware of this recent development. Myself, I would give the new Apex Gen 3 specific extractor a try before I would dump the Glock platform. From the manufacturers section of this forum.
Brickboy and to those gen 3 owners who are still having problems, even with our current extractor. I understand your level of frustration completely.
If our current extractor isn’t improving your ejection, call our office and talk to Steve. He will arrange to have you return the part for refund or credit (As long as the part hasn’t been altered).
We are fast tracking the new extractor. In a nutshell, the main problem with the Gen 3 is that the locking block sits at a different height relative to the slide than the Gen 4. Our current extractor was designed around the Gen 4 dimensions and only anecdotally tested in Gen 3s.
For those in the know, I have a question: When did the LCI extractor first show up? Was it on the Gen 3 first? or the Gen 4? The reason I ask is because I suspect that the LCI extractor was designed around the Gen 4, and it was assumed that it would be backwards compatible with the Gen 3.
The new extractor is designed to compensate for the dimensional differences in the Gen 3, and for the extreme end of the tolerance stack. We are fabricating the prototypes now, and have a machine on standby so that when I sign off on the part, production will begin immediately. I expect that the Gen 3 specific extractor will be ready to release in about 6 weeks.
In a few weeks, we will post some video of the new design in a couple of problem G17s that we have here in the shop. Both exhibited weak, erratic and BTF in every single magazine regardless of ammo used. They are the guns that customers tried every possible fix (including our current extractor)to no avail. Further, I designed the extractor to work with EITHER the 336 or the 30274 ejector.
I hear this a lot. I shoot to trigger recovery (not reset) so in this instance, the lack of a hard reset matters not. In fact I can make a valid argument that a hard reset is a NEGATIVE for shooters (as they always look for it and never get into a rhythm when shooting). This is a very common problem I see in Glock shooters.
Have you checked out a new production M&P? It has a trigger reset much like the PPQ. If an M&P does not have a hard reset, you can add an APEX RAM for $21 dollars (not $100).
Problems with the PPQ:
The mag release is ass-backwards from any other pistol I own.
While different, it is actually superior (if you take the time to learn it).
Good to know that they changed the M&P’s trigger. Admittedly, I shot an early one and the trigger was terrible.
The mag release on the PPQ is different to ME…but not to anyone that owns any HK pistol. If you have a USP, P2000 or P-30, you will be right at home. But yeah, for someone with SIGs, 1911s, Glocks and a Hi-Power…it seems odd. Never said it was bad…just different and something I would have to “learn” but not a deal breaker.
In fact…I am really leaning hard towards the PPQ. Everyone talks about it’s high bore axis, but I have never been bothered by the recoil of my P220, P228 and P225 and supposedly those have a high bore axis. Its a 9mm service sized gun…how snappy could it be?
I agree, it’s hard to argue with LAV, but when you consider the total cost of each platform, the m&p offers more to me
PPQ mags are almost double the cost, sight selection is very limited (the stock plastic sights aren’t the best), and the base gun is around $125 more expensive
edit: I also really like the PPQ mag release, I use my index finger similar to on an AR. I don’t consider it a drawback. I also prefer it over hk’s design
I have seen the PPQ selling for about 475 on the web in some places and locally, it is about 525-570 bucks.
In April, I paid 480 for a Glock 19.
Sorry…that is not too much more expensive. Not in the P-30 price range…now THAT is a jump from the 500 dollar guns and a bit harder for most to swallow.
Yes, with Glocks we get spoiled by cheap mags, but SIG mags usually run about 35-45 bucks a pop and HK mags are 50 bucks plus in most places so the mag cost on the PPQ is not that stiff. Especially if they last a long time like the SIG mags.
Agreed. I have a May 2010 model Smith with the older size sear and plunger. I was going to send it Apex to get it opened up/repositioned for the larger plunger but then realized ,why ? My gun works great. Only thing done to it was the Apex DCAEK and thats it mechanically. I actually bought and tried out the FSS and after 1000 or so rounds I just could not get used to it.
Lack of reset, etc can be fixed with money but also the sensation of not feeling it as well as other pistols can be overcome with practice. Like Grant said I don’t search for the reset. My trigger finger knows the amount of pre travel, travel, overtravel and the break and reset point b/c of all the time spent working that particular gun and trigger. When I first bought the gun the first thing I did was run out and shoot it. Coming from 1911s I could not shoot the broad side of a barn with the M&P. “What’s wrong?” I asked myself. Ah…it must be the trigger b/c yeh it did suck to me. Break and reset were terrible. So I ordered the DCEAK and it did improve it but the ‘barn’ did not get any smaller.
2.5 years and about 8K rounds later through the gun with the same setup and I love that trigger now. Others will try it out and say its just ok but to me its my favorite trigger out there. Why? Not b/c its the crispest or smoothest but b/c I know how it works.
That horrible trigger at first I am convinced made me a better shooter. And that’s not saying I was Jerry Miculek when I started to shoot M&Ps. Point is that all those little faults I blamed on the gun at first and thought would make me a worse shooter actually improved my shooting. I LEARNED to run that trigger and I am a better shooter for it.
I have both and recommend the platform that requires the least amount of aftermarket modifications for shooters who only want to train on one handgun. That is because I believe in owning at least 3 identical models of your carry weapon. It is my belief is that you are going to get the most consistent performance in the guns that come from the factory without extensive modification.
I’m not disagreeing that the PPQ is still great gun (I own 3). but all things considered, to me the m&p is superior.
If you have accuracy issues with your barrel (my compacts and FS haven’t had any problems), grant has a match grade storm lake barrel that will out shoot the PPQ’s.
The PPQ trigger is hands down better than any other striker fired handgun, but I’m just as proficient with the stock m&p trigger
I guess you’re right, I personally don’t know shit since I don’t own one of the barrels (my stock barrels have been fine) but going by what grant has said and the fact that it’s a fitted, match grade barrel, I think it would be more accurate
let me know if you have info saying otherwise though
I think you are missing the point. Most of us want a pistol that is good to go right out of the tupperware box. Not dumping $500 into a $500 pistol.
M&P setup for trigger and barrel= $1000 all said and done to make it equal to a Gen3 Glock (with $20 disconnector) and a Walther right out of the box. It’s a shame too as I really wanted to like the M&P.
Heckuva recommendation from LAV here, and the extensive modification argument is what made me question the M&P9 initially.
I think I’m going to pick up a PPQ when I arrange funds and get on the list somewhere for a good Kydex holster. I get along well with paddle mag releases and the DP sights available are almost exactly my preference (prefer a U-notch but square is fine).
I like the concept of the M&P9, and I’ll probably end up with a kitted-out one down the road, but I can’t see a big advantage to it over a PPQ right now.
