Weighing PPQ vs M&P9

Down to one centerfire semi-auto, a Talon II in 9mm - feel the need to add something with more than 10-round capacity.

I have some experience with the M&P9 but it was pre-Apex parts - I wound up selling it because the weak trigger reset was so annoying. The ergonomics, though, were absolutely fantastic.

So I’m now weighing a G&R kitted out M&P9 (fitted barrel, DCAEK, sights) vs. a PPQ w/ Dawson Precision sights. Price difference is ~$200, all told, I’m just going to call it small enough to not matter to me.

M&P9 - whole lotta aftermarket parts installed, which makes sending it in for warranty service a little more questionable if I needed to, but it seems like it should shoot tight groups and run well straight out of the box

PPQ - less aftermarket support (but holsters/etc. are more available now), apparently S&W warranty support is slow now but Walther will take over directly next year, but word is that the trigger is excellent right out of the box. As I recall, paddle mag release works well for me.

Uses will be indoor range shooting, hopefully some IDPA and if I can get the chance, a class or two in 2013.

Can’t go wrong with either one. Try to find a place to shoot both and base your decision on that.

Considering what a pot luck the M&P seems to be, I’d try the PPQ. Sights and aftermarket is pretty slim with the Walther though.

PPQ with Dawson sights.

Well, I tried both…( M&P9, PPQ) I still have the PPQ…

what potluck? I think he said he’s getting the storm lake barrel which is more accurate than the stock PPQ barrel.

both the m&p and PPQ have been reliable for me (No problems at all) so that’s a draw.

trigger definitely goes to the PPQ, but with Apex parts the m&p is no slouch (the stock m&p is getting better too though, my 2012 m&p has a Clean break and tactile reset). the PPQ trigger is clean and the reset is short

ergos are a toss up and are pretty subjective.

m&p recoil is lighter to me (probably the lightest of all my 9mms) but it’s still 9mm, so recoil isn’t an issue. I do like the lower bore axis of the m&p, makes me feel like I have a better grip on the gun and have more control over it.

mags and parts definitely favor the m&p

cheapest PPQs around me are over $550 and grant has the m&p at $420, but that advantage is erased when you add a $200 barrel (it is match grade though, and the stock m&p barrel will net you some money back on the EE)

I have only dry fired the M&P to get a feel for it’s trigger. I’ve put a few hundred rounds through a PPQ.

What I like about the PPQ is it’s crisp for it’s class trigger, short and positive reset, how it feels in the hand, that it’s easy to shoot, no mag safety, no thumb safety, the balance either empty or loaded, mag release, ease of mag insertion even when fully loaded and the slide is in battery, smooth shape and efficient size.

What I don’t like is the overly large (but easy to use) slide release. I haven’t figured out where to place my thumbs. I like the design of the sights, but don’t like that they are made of plastic. They can be deformed when bumped hard.

Overall, there is much more I like about the PPQ than I dislike. It has quickly become a favorite pistol

I own a PPQ. I own a full custom M&P with a fitted SL barrel. I like many things about the PPQ (trigger, slide release, mag release and accuracy).

The M&P with a fitted barrel and an Apex Tactical FSS or AEK trigger is second to none I think. The ergo’s are fantastic, the CT lasergrips fit into it better than any other gun IMHO, sight options are abundant, mags are cheap, parts are available and cheap.

If I couldn’t make any of the changes to the M&P, the PPQ would be it for certain.

C4

I have over 5K into my M&Ps and PPQs presently.
Bought four of my five M&Ps one year ago and decked them all out with the Apex FSS and trigger kits and Ameriglo sights. Earlier this year I started down the PPQ path and now have two 9MMs and one .40 S&W.

I have spent a lot of time going back and forth between the two in order to figure out which one really fits my needs better. Here are a few observations that made me comfortable leaving the M&P camp and calling the PPQ camp home:

1.) I have found that even with the FSS and trigger kit on my M&P 9 fullsize (as good, crisp and light of a trigger as it is), I have come to substantially prefer the pull, break and even the very positive reset of my PPQs’ triggers over my M&Ps’. In all fairness to the M&P, perhaps if I had installed the Apex DCAEK kit or perhaps even just left them stock and let them break in, it might be a different story (and more of an apples to apples comparison). It is interesting that my next favorite trigger to the PPQ’s is the one on my Shield. It is stock and I have found that it leaves nothing to be desired for me. I will note that the FSS triggers are the lightest of all of these triggers as well.
I will also point out that the stock M&P triggers that are produced today are supposed to be an improvement over the stock triggers on the older ones like mine.

2.) Ergonomics. Highly personal and subjective. No right or wrong here, just which works best for each individual.
I was very impressed with the M&P’s ergos, in the beginning.
Of all of my M&Ps, I have realized that the 9MM fullsize’s ergos work the least well for me. In my case I have found that the M&P 9MM FS’s grip never quite gets small enough (front to back) and the length in this direction affects my lateral stability with hits on target. With the smallest backstrap on my PPQs, I am in heaven. It took me half of a year to realize this small but very important point. After spending so much time with my PPQs, I now feel that the M&P 9MM FS grip is just incorrect for me in several minute areas. For the longest time, my M&P felt perfect at home but when at the range, the subtle detractors were more apparent.

3.) Thumb safety. I have them on my M&Ps. I believe in the use of thumb safeties and have gone with and without them over the years. On 1911s they never seemed to detract from my grip. The M&P
thumb safety is similar to the 1911 style but I have come to believe that my grip with the use of the M&P thumb safety is hindered by just a small amount. My fault. If I knew this before, I may have ordered all of my M&Ps without the TS. You may not use them or care about this point.

Ordering a recently manufactured M&P 9MM FS is probably a safe bet as far as getting an improved trigger and not having to worry about the accuracy issues of the past that I had to deal with. My PPQs are everything and more that I had hoped that my 9MM M&Ps would have been.

It really took me a long time to split all of these hairs. None of the things that I discovered above amount to very much on their own, but, when added together, I had my “lightbulb moment” and clearly decided that the M&Ps were to be replaced by PPQs. Once again I’ll mention that the Shield is a different story and has been my preference over the PPS for me, to date.

I have shot both and i would go with a tricked out M&P from Grant.

I’m always left to wonder about cases like this; especially when a fully-upgraded M&P can almost put you in P30 territory. (I mean, a fully-upgraded 1911 is a thing of beauty, too, no?)

The question to me is how much upgrading are we talking about? There is a lot of goodness to keeping any CCW piece in a fairly box stock configuration for liability purposes, and the PPQ obviously shines without a lot of enhancements – while doing so for well under $600.

I also took a look at spec’ing a full-on M&P from Grant a while back, and while I do consider these to be excellent guns, there is no escaping the fact that you have to spend a fair amount of money getting the gun to where you want it, and that end state results in a different gun in some respects.

AC

I agree with you in some respects, but to me, each gun has their draws and limitations, with m&p accuracy being the most discussed

stock m&ps are over $125 dollars cheaper. Add a couple extra mags and it’s another $100 (m&p mags $25, PPQ mags $46)

that already pays for the storm lake match barrel, and if you can’t stand the stock trigger (which has gotten much better) you can sell the original m&p barrel and buy Apex parts.

If the trigger is that important to you, it only takes a little extra work to even things out money wise.

Who’s going to buy a barrel that is inaccurate from the factory?

I would think an unused factory barrel will sell for $50-60 without a problem. not all barrels have issues, not all shooters can shoot well enough at 25 meters to tell a difference, and most instances where firearms are used for self defense occur at much shorter distances than 25 meters.

I did. A lot of us did. Not everyone could tell.

Once again, the current generation barrels are supposed to have fixed the accuracy issues.

I would feel like a smuck selling my older stock barrel to anyone.
Is there someone that you don’t like at your local bullseye match that you could sell it to?

Notwithstanding my appreciation for the aftermarket (1911 owner :secret: ) and with the exception of hard to find holsters, there is something very right about shooting a gun as is, without the nagging “maybe if I change the ____ or get that ____” whisper in your ear. In the words of one of my deceased shooting buddies, “Just shoot the *&%$#@'n thing”.

YMMV

Exactly. The PPQ experience was so refreshing after the M&P fiasco.

My 9MM M&Ps needed: the sear housing blocks. A new barrel. A better trigger. Sights (optional). Stippling (debatable).

My PPQs needed: sights (optional).

After all that swapping crap out, I find the PPQ still shoots better (for me).

I have a 2012 9mm VTAC that shoots high left at 25 yards in the prone. I have to aim at the target’s left hip to hit them in the chest. That to me is unsatisfactory. I’m glad that those on here who use the reasoning most gunfights happen in less than 10 yards or so have the precognitive powers of where and at what ranges thier gunfight will occur. It chaps my ass that I have to send my slide to Grant and get a match barrel just to have the gun shoot straight at a resonable distance.

If it consistently shoots high and to the left might it be a sight problem instead of a barrel problem?

Sights are in spec. I moved the rear sight so the left problem is gone. The VTAC sights are already tall, so I haven’t been able to find one that is taller. So I’m left with it being a barrel problem. A lot of others have posted of this anomaly as well.