As mentioned you don’t usually have to point the muzzle/light directly at the threat to illuminate the room. And even if you did, if your finger is where it’s supposed to be it’s a moot point IMO. But I’ve resigned myself to the fact that carrying a gun is potentially dangerous to everyone involved and that we should get serious about it and deal with it. Do what you can to mitigate risk but not at the risk of putting yourself at a disadvantage.
Yeah, yeah I know.
Wasn’t there a story posted here recently about an officer who had a ND using his weapon mounted light?
The reason I asked my question is I have only had training on hand held lights with a pistol. I have also had limited training with a weapon mounted light on the carbine.
For those of you who have experience with this; If you have a handheld and pistol mounted light, what is the technique when switching from “search” mode with the handheld to “engagement” with the weapon light?
For those operating with a carbine, would you also use a handheld for searching?
Both… each has their strengths and weaknesses but having both allows one to supplement the other.
Besides, if I need a light to do basic things I dont want to have to point my pistol at everything just for illumination. A hand held unit is perfect for basic illumination and it is also a great BFT device for those animals that are extra meaty.
When dealing with handguns, lights, and low light situations I view the handheld light as esstential and the weapon light as a useful supplement.
The handheld allows you to use the light in a variety of positions. It’s much easier to put light on behind barriers, seperate the light from your body, etc. One of the major drawbacks is that the handheld ties up a hand which limits you, in effect, to one hand shooting.
The weapon light allows a conventional 2 handed grip in most cases, makes opening/closing doors/lids easier, etc. One of the drawbacks of the weapon light is that you are limited in how you can illuminate an area unless you’re breaking out some flipping/rolling Spetsnaz style move.
IME, if you’re searching with a handheld and encounter a threat you’re going to handle it, at least initially, with the handheld light. This is due to the speed of the encounter. The one exception to this is if you’re using a DG switch and only need to grab the gun harder in order to activate the light.
For those operating with a carbine, would you also use a handheld for searching?
in most cases the bulk of illumination needs will be fufilled by the weapon light. While you can use a handheld, and at times there’s a need for it, it is much more difficult with the long gun.
NCPatrol,
That’s kind of what I thought. I would even speculate (not having done this training) that minimally trained personnel will forget to dump the handheld and attempt to two-hand the pistol with the light still in the hand. Have you ever seen this?
For carbine, if “we” say pointing a weapon mounted light at a no-shoot is unacceptable, what’s the alternative? Not too efficient trying to use a handheld with a carbine.
Interesting thread. There is always a handheld light on the nightstand next to my pistol for many of the reasons detailed here and a small light goes about everywhere with me. This is not likely to change.
In the last year I bit the bullet and forked out the $ for a couple of x300s. It surprised me how uncomfortable I felt trying to use it while maintaining a good grip and trigger pull at first. A lot of practice has made it feel better but still doesn’t handle quite as “natural” as I’d like. More practice!
I am sold though on having the light weapon-mounted as I can’t imagine trying to clear a malfunction or perform a reload while trying to keep track of the handheld light and not turn myself into Dumbo the illuminated bullet magnet.
same here.
While use both it ,
I have splashed walls and floors with a weapons lights to ID with out muzzle covering them
But having them both is the way to go
A weapon mounted light has it’s advantages, especially in a simple one on one, face to face altercation where you’re not searching for him, he’s right there and you need to identify him and be able to see what weapon he may or may not have, etc. A hazardous vehicle stop, hazardous pedestrian stop, etc are all examples of this. But a building search or yard search for a suspect in a home, building or a property is one where I’d prefer a light in my other hand. For a K-9 officer a weapon mounted light is a wonderful tool as the other hand must be used to control the dog in a search or at a scene.
Searching a house or building is extremely hazardous for the searcher(s). Doing it with a flashlight is something that requires training to be done safely. The bad guy has many advantages over you since he has merely to conceal and wait for you to move to him - then attack when you enter the room. You’re the one moving so he will always know where you are first. Using a flashlight tactically is tricky. You don’t leave it on continuously - otherwise all you do is make yourself a wonderfully easy target. The light is used with a quick flash and then you MOVE and don’t remain where you just were.
This requires extensive training and is always extremely hazardous. Rounding/slicing corners as you enter rooms or hallways are a skill set of their own that require much training if they are to be done safely.
Personally I like a light in my free hand. Distances are measured in just a few feet in a home defense scenario, so two hands on the gun is not a big concern if you train extensively with point shooting.
Amen.
+1.
Additionally, a handheld light can serve as a decent impact weapon.
I always carry a handheld light. If out at night, my primary carry handgun has a Surefire weaponlight on it as well.
Q: Weapon mounted or hand held?
A: Weapon mounted AND hand held.
You can never have too many flashlights. Remember two is one and one is zero. Always carry extra 123A batteries (like the SureFire ones with 10-year shelf life) on your person / kit.
Ok so if I was going to attend a low light shooting course (handgun), I should still take both? I have a SureFire G2 which I know isn’t the fanciest light but it puts out a lot of light and has held up great over the last several years and I’m thinking about buying a TLR-1 to mount on my M&P9 but if the consensus is I don’t need it and should just take the hand held for the first low light course I take, thats what I’ll do and I’ll use the $100 to buy more mags.
I would take both to a course and I would use both given the option.
The majority of my handguns do not have rails for a light so I use a handheld. I have one pistol with a rail and have a TLR-1 on it. I still have a handheld with me when I use that pistol. The flexibility having both available is more then worth it.
I like the comment above. Shinning a light on someone at night is an annoyance. Pointing a light at someone with a gun attached to the back of it can become assault. Sometimes you don’t want to go there.
Totally agree.
Most of those range rules have a reason(train how you fight concept) but I do support weapon mounted lights. My reasoning is if I am searching with my weapon there is a good reason and everything is a threat until I know otherwise. Trigger finger disipline is a must. But I don’t believe you should continue to point your weapon at a target you are not about to shoot. You ID the target as a no shoot the light comes down to a 45 degree you can still see them and their hands but you are not muzzling them.
That is so true. One of the most hairy calls I was ever on was on FTO. It was -20 below and I had burned out both of my hand held lights I carried at the time working on a DUI arrest with multiple subjects. The arrest took place on the frozen river while my patrol vehicle was some 200 yards away. While I was leading the first suspect back to my car, on my way back I hear a voice from out of the woods say “don’t come any closer or I will shoot”. I could not see my lights were dead. I drew and pointed towards where I heard the sound and I could barely make out a figure with a pistol to his own head. My lights were dead. (batteries pre LED days and the cold eats them up) I called for back up and my Sgt arrived. My FTO was dealing with two other suspects and was tied up. It all ended with the subject shooting himself in the leg of all places. But to make a long story short I could have gotten killed that night and I had no working lights. I now carry a weapon mounted light on all my duty guns, I have a handheld on my person and a mini led light on my vests zipper. I also have another light in the vehicle.
Pat
Agreed. You did a better job of explaining this position than I did.
I fully understand the muzzle/light dilemma and no two situations are alike, but to me, (at night) if I am in enough danger to need to draw my weapon, then I need all of my skills to accurately fire that weapon if the need arises with due deference to the low light being an additional challenge to accuracy.
Life is a compromise in almost every arena, and if my muzzle sweeps a friendly, (I don’t take this as glib or light heatedly either) then so be it.
I think there is equal and similar risk to having a flashlight out and a gun in your hand, and if a shot is required that a miss is just as bad (responsibly, liability, and life threatening) as sweeping a muzzle over a friendly.
Training is always the key, and while one can train just as much with one method, so too can one train for the other.
one is accuracy with one hand on the gun and the other holding a foreign object that is not supporting the gun, (difficult to learn but not impossible, but takes time)
the other is finger off the trigger until you want to fire (easier in my book to train for)
everyone has their preferences, none better or worse, as long as you are confident in them.