Want to build a 3-gun/practical weapon system.

AR/M4 Custom Build Forum
1

My carbine isn’t what I thought, and with the new shooting techniques, plus my very active entrance back into 3-gun, I’m wanting to really build a new weapon system for match, but also practicality in today’s unsure world. My dilemma stems between what length of the barrel, lower, parts kits, trigger system, battery assist device, barrel type (more on that), and either a gas block, or switchblock.

Here are my choices I have narrowed down to:

Lowers
Noveske flared lower (when it comes out).
LaRue billet lower

Upper
Noveske
VLTOR MUR

Trigger
Geissele S3G
Geissele Two Stage
Geissele DMR

Barrel
Noveske SS
Noveske hammer forge

Length
14.5"
16"

My intent is to build this system here at home (with correct tools, of course). My other intent is to use the lower as a SPR. So, do I need to think about matching lower to upper receivers with the same company, are my choices compatible with each other, and what are the pros and cons of on what I have selected. I want the best tool for the sport I’m growing to love, plus using it with practice means (SHTF, ZOMBIES, Ginger uprising).

What I have settled on is the using Magpul’s UBR stock, a LarRue Tactical free float rail system, and either an AAC blackout or brakeout with the intention of getting a suppressor down the road.

I’m looking for this weapon to be my go-to rifle system for a long time.

Here are a few of my ideas (thanks to pimp my gun):


LaRue Noveske 3 by mauser_leo, on Flickr


LaRue Noveske 2 by mauser_leo, on Flickr

Oh yeah, trying not to make this thing into a boat anchor.

2

Spoke to soon.

http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/manufacturer&manufacturer=40&pagenumber=3

3

Why not just order direct from Noveske. Flared lowers are available. Also, they can assist in registering your lower, keeping you from having to engrave.

4

I thought he wanted an SPR not SBR

5

:eek: You’re right. My mind is stuck on my sBr. :D. Either way, ordering direct seems a lot easier.

6

Yeah. I’d order direct too

7

Here are my thoughts…

8

Dutchy:

I’m wanting this to be a multi-purpose weapon. I.E. 3-gun, training, Zombies, fun, and the like. So, I’m looking for a “working” weapon, not so much as a competition weapon (lord knows I couldn’t keep up with the ammo count at my budget to REALLY compete).

I have thought about ordering a weapon from Noveske direct, but I really, really want to build one of my own and choose what I want in it. For me, and my monetary limits, I’d be better off ordering it and putting it together one piece at a time instead of ordering a complete weapon, and turning around and ordering everything else (like getting a 45 degree selector from Battle Arms) to get want I am wanting in a weapon system.

I’m going to start with the lower, upper, flash suppressor, and a few other things.

I’ll look into the A5 Mod stock. I am trying to keep weight in mind, but the UBR has a whole package deal and looks easier to install (sling point, battery storage). The SPR will probably come at a later date, and could come with a different receiver, so I’m not hell bent on that total idea, but keeping it in the back of my mind.

Why the 16" of the 14.5"? I understand about being able to remove flash suppressors on a 16" because of NFA crap, plus the longer barrel for velocity factor. But part of me wants a legally short barrel weapon because of the “stuff happens” preparedness of me. I’ve searched on here and understand some of the argument, but it’s coming down to personal preference, and I’m on the edge.

Can I order a hammer forged barrel from Noveske without ordering one of their N4 uppers to get it?

9

What’s with all the zombie references?

10

Stainless for accuracy.

Magnified optic with BDC, Mil or MOA reticle (or turrets) unless all your rifle stages are fairly short. Red Dots just don’t compete if you are shooting 10" steel at 400+.

11

Its a joke. :rolleyes: <—should have placed that in there.

12

400 shmo-hundred. I did national match shoots way before I did 3-gun. I aim to USE my BUIS> :cool:

13

Irons will work (if the stage designer so desires). Not sure about non-adjustable BUIS, though.

14

I got an MATECH. I’m covered.:stuck_out_tongue:

Now dumb ass here who hasn’t done much with optics needs to remember from now on not to remove his Aimpoint M2 when cleaning his rifle, figuring it will hold zero when I put it back on:suicide2:. I had great, fantastic groupings on a rather hard course of fire in the back of a pick-up. Got down into my sitting position and went to town.

Unfortunately all those nice, majority nickle size groupings were way the hell right!!!

Been shooting an M1 way to long.

15

Responses follow

16

Dutchy:

In my check list for this go-to weapon, a chrome line has been at the top of my priorities. If it wasn’t I would have already bought a RRA and just stayed in the TOS camp, which I now despise and have mended my ways.

I don’t shoot much as it is, and my shooting is about to get less due to school starting. However, I’m planning (and will, eventually) to go to some carbine classes, so the idea of a SS barrel has my doubts, like you have mentioned. My original intent was/is a CHF barrel, and I keep hearing the good praises of Noveske and want to give them my shot(s). But I have also been looking into BCM and DD. Here is what I’m leery of: installing the gas block and tube. I’ve seen the videos that it is easy to do, but I’ve heard stories, and worked with weapons when they weren’t. Noveske seems to send theirs already installed (and wow, so does DD). Am I fretting to much on this?

Looking at it through cost and availability, if I were to with the SS barrel build with everything coming in pieces, including a BCG and charging handle, I actually save a few hundred bucks, plus have all the parts I want already instead of buying more to satisfy me. If I were to go with the DD CHF, I’d be saving more.

Decisions, decisions, decisions.

17

I also should ask: should I get an anti-roll pin kit, or will everything fit nice and snug? I’m not aiming for the cool factor, but practical.

18

1- You really need to decide if this is going to be a GP rifle or something else, and exactly what that “something else” really is.

Trying to make a GP/CQB/SPR/High-Power/3-Gun carbine simply won’t work out. Now, taking your GP carbine to matches is something different, and if you aren’t too concerned with winning, but rather your own personal skill development, you can have a great time.

2- Precision comes at a price. Usually in both weight and money along with a decrease in life.

One can take a nice Recce type upper and apply it to most carbine tasks, but burning down close range targets is just putting wear on the barrel.

3- Most ARs are more precise than their owners.

A decent barrel from a decent company with decent ammo should provide ~2.5 MOA for a long time. Shoot your good ammo during matches and long-range practice and cheapo ammo during close-range training.

4- Optics are a huge part of the equation.

The discussion on optics is vast and lacks clear borders. I recommend throrough examination of the topic with expectation to change your mind several times. Buy optics that support your application.

19

Presumably you’re talking about the anti-rotation pins from KNS or whomever else might make something similar. And the answer is no you should not. They are neither cool nor practical.

20

Ok, well then given this, I would probably go with a CHF barrel then.

Even with barrels that come with the gas block and everything installed you’ll still have to remove them to install the barrel nut for your rail of choice and then re-install. This isn’t difficult if you have the right tools but if you get stubborn pins on the gas block it can be a pain.

Given what you’re saying, my honest recommendation would be buy a Noveske or BCM or DD upper in in the config that you want unless you already have all the tools that you need and just can’t find a complete upper that will work for you. I understand the urge to build your own, and I’m currently waiting on the parts to put together a new upper myself but that’s because what I want is really specific and not available from the factory, and I already have all the tools and have done this before… but for most other rifles I’ve put together in the last few years I’ve just picked the barrel/rail combo I wanted from BCM and thrown a BCG and CH in it, no muss no fuss.

I have a hard time seeing how you couldn’t find a barrel/rail combo that will work for what you want from one of the above manufacturers. Slap it on a lower with whatever parts you want to build it with and you’re good to go. The price difference should be slight if you compare apples to apples and pretty much negligible if you have to buy tools for the upper.

And skip the KNS pins…